How to move forward in my marriage

[Northend77]

I have come to a head and spoken to a relate online counsellor today as I just don't know what to do regarding my marriage - leave, work at it, how to work at it, etc

We have been together 11 years, married for 8 and have almost 3 year old twins.

My previous marriage was emotionally abusive and pretty fucked up (sexual fetishes of his that I just couldn't get my head around, etc) so my DH seemed like a breath of fresh air when I met him and I instantly fell in love. His lack of empathy and refusal to apologise for anything (even when he knows he's in the wrong) has been frustrating and irritating in the past and I've always been the peacemaker (or at least tried to be) in arguments however, since having the girls and getting help for my depression I have become less and less tolerant of him.

It came to a head last night when I agreed to help a friend with a last minute babysitting request. This would normally have been fine although we were only on night 2 of ditching the dummies so he had to deal with them on his own. I asked him if he minded, offered to take one of the girls with me but he refused. Then he blew up on me via messenger when I checked in to see how it was going. When I got in at 10:45 he and the girls were all asleep

This morning one of the girls was hugely difficult and we ended up having a stand off and I was 90 minutes late for work. I sent an angry text to DH saying that he should be happy as karma was a bitch and that I was late for work and he's not the only one suffering in this. He came back asking what the fuck was wrong with me, it wasn't a competition, that I decided to ditch the dummies so we should have suffered it together. I replied that I "probably shouldn't have agreed" but I refused to say I was wrong or that I was sorry and that it was a learned behaviour (from how he does things with me). I said that no, it wasn't a competition but it's also far from shared on many things. I organise all their nursery stuff, emergency childcare, teeth brushing, appointments, packing their bags when we go out, sort their clothes, wash car seats when they've been sick, etc etc
He still asked "what the fuck is wrong with you" and pointed out that he just asked me to take some responsibility for something I implemented and that I had been out of order

I will agree that I was out of order, however, I feel I've been driven to a point of being selfish and a bit childish and I'm sick of being the one who always backs down in a disagreement

Reasons for me feeling this way - I do most of the housework. I do EVERYTHING practical for the girls. I do ALL nursery drop offs and pick ups and he meets me (his bus changes outside of nursery) when he chooses to. He leaves the house at 6:30 (starts work at 8am 6 miles away but has to take 2 busses) and I get myself and the girls ready in an attempt to leave at 7:45. He comes home and goes straight in the shower (works in a car plant so fair enough) but then spends up to half an hour on his phone upstairs, leaving me to the girls downstairs. We both work full time but I earn much more yet we have a joint account only and all spending is joint and I never complain about this (even though it bothers me more and more in times of disagreement). He NEVER says sorry - never has, even when he had an emotional affair online and I stood in front of him in tears. His reasons for not driving is because it's never adversely affected him and he's never needed to - no consideration for the fact that I have to drive everywhere instead and he's never taken me up on the times I've encouraged him to learn, even had money aside for it. I gave up nagging a grown man

So, I spoke to relate today. The counsellor agreed that I need to ask him exactly what he wants from our marriage and what his goals are because I appear to be guessing right now and we clearly are on different paths/have different values
I plan to ask him to answer some questions:
what are his personal goals
what are his family goals (if any)
what does he enjoy about our marriage
what does he want to change about it
what does he like about me
what doesn't he like about me
and, ultimately, does he actually want to be with me or just his kids

I also want to impelement a fairer share of duties but I am unsure of how to do this. I have tried to split the housework in the past but it just ends with me nagging that it's not been done and we plan to get a cleaner next year anyway. But I DO want the childcare more evently split. It's not possible for him to do drop off but I think he could at least to half of the pick ups and bring them home on the bus so that I can go straight home and have a peaceful shower. I also think that we change to doing bedtimes every other day by ourselves rather than both of us doing them every day - giving each of us some time off. And this goes for weekend time with them too - at least half a day off to do our own thing, without the kids, once or twice a month

What do people think? I'm so unsure of what to do but I know I need to do SOMETHING

Good god that was an essay. Sorry and thank you to anyone who gets through it all!

I think a great way to start is by asking him those questions, but I fear that given the abusive way he communicates, getting mature answers will be difficult. Whatever the case, things need to change or you need to move on. This is no way to live.

Everything you want is completely reasonable. Asking those questions is good as well. But in my mind the bigger more philosophical stuff, which I agree is very important longer term, is different to changing the division of labour - though I suppose it would come under your answers for what you want to change in your marriage and what you don't like about him.

Have you addressed them yourself? You might find some clarity in writing down your own answers. See how your lists of likes and dislikes compare.

This is a classic example where I can see how much calmer and easier your life would be on your own as he doesn't seem to bring much of value to you, your marriage, your home or your family.

But it's important to know you've done everything you can, and it's fair at this point, once you've answered your own questions, to pose them to him. Maybe get him to write the answers down and you can both have a look at your answers together. Does he realise how serious things are at the moment?

Thank you Aqua, that's the point I've reached - things have to change permanently, either for the better or we go our separate ways. And I also don't think I'm going to get much out of him either but I will just have to give him an ultimatum - work with me or check out

OK, ask yourself those questions about your DH.
Write down your answers.
I think you might be surprised that you are actually don't really like your DH.
And who can blame you.
So what then?
Tackle your side of things first.
Can you see this ever working without having to nag and mother him to do anything?
If not then you are wasting your time.
It take 2 to fix this.
He has to be on board.
Don't let it all about you and what he thinks of you.
Your part is just as important.

Thanks Anne that's exactly what I planned to do - pose the same questions to both of us and then let us each see the responses. It may be painful but I'm more than prepared to see what he truely thinks - I actually want to know. If he's not prepared to do that then I'll have to tell him I can't think of what else we can do. I'm not sure if he realises how serious things have got as he just doesn't communicate unless it's in rage form - it's either sulking silence or explosive as he bottles stuff up but I have reached my breaking point with it all. I have thought on many occasions what life would be like on my own and I actually think I'd enjoy it! I can cope financially and have a great support network but I feel guilty because he wouldn't and his family live an hour away and he has no friends of his own. I also know it would mean he wouldn't see his girls every day and that would destroy him but perhaps he needs to consider that as part of our own relationship

Thank you hells, it seems that perhaps I have conveyed my situation more clearly than I thought (my mind was racing when writing my post) as everyone has responded in exactly the way I'm thinking and feeling. I do WANT our marriage to work but I genuinely can't see what the future holds. I think I need him to change more than he is willing or capable. I think he is too stubborn and would let me end it before he accepted he's not perfect. It's just a very sad situation. Our girls adore him and ask for him daily (since getting back from holiday a week ago one of them has even told me that she doesn't like me anymore, doesn't want to play with me and only Daddy is her friend)

To be honest OP he sounds like a sociopath

tocas have you read any of my previous posts? I only ask because I have mentioned before that, in his younger days before he met me, he was referred to a psychiatrist who apparently diagnosed him as a sociopath but I purposely left that out of my post to avoid swaying opinion. But it's a big reason as to why I believe he can't change

Northend77
No I haven't, but his lack of empathy, unwillingness to apologise or seemingly compromise for anybody (even his own wife and children) is what rang that particular alarm bell for me

Well, whatever the future brings, at least I'll be able to say I tried

Oh shit, op. Him being diagnosed as a sociopath changes EVERYTHING. It's one thing if he's a stubborn jackass who hasn't been taught how to communicate, but it's another thing altogether given he's a sociopath. He is incapable of seeing your point of view or considering your needs. If I had known this before my first post, I would have told you to leave him and as quickly as possible. Put your money in a private account and move on. Changing him would be like trying to stop the waves on the ocean. It can't be done.

OK so he either stonewalls you (abuse)
Or verbally abuses you.
You can't save this one.
Stop trying.

I do appreciate what you're saying and in my heart I know that to be the case but I think I need to go through the motions to at least show him, and anyone else, after the fact, that I tried to make it work. I have written out my answers now so if he's not willing to do this exercise or suggest anything else then I will have to tell him it's done with

You've tried to make it work for 11 YEARS, and the opinion of "anyone else" is irrelevant. If you feel you must have this conversation with him, I sincerely hope for your own wellbeing that you only have it once. Don't fall victim to his abuse and stonewalling for one more day. You don't want your girls growing up believing that this is how a marriage should be.

You don't need to justify this to him or anyone else. Not being happy is reason enough to leave. Really it is. And after 11 years, it's hardly as if you haven't tried.