Do I interfere?

[SadieContrary]

Interfere seems a bit strong but felt it might garner more traffic (sorry) - what I really mean is should I talk to my BIL before my DSis calls time on their marriage for good?

The only reason I suggest this is because him and I get on very well and I think he might listen if he hears it from another source?

Basically, she's unhappy and he's not listening. It's like he's in denial. She's in the midst of an affair (approx 6mths now) he knows about it but is turning a blind eye, I think, in the vain hope that it'll fizzle out and they'll all go back to normal. She's taking it that he just doesn't care. When the affair started (one night stand), he found out, begged her not to leave, promise it was just a one night stand and he would forget about it. She couldn't as was crippled by guilt so asked him to go to Relate with her to get to the bottom of why it happened in the first place. He reluctantly dragged himself along but as he said he forgave her and wanted to move on then he felt the process to be pointless and money they didn't need to spend. Therefore, the affair started up but with intent on both sides this time.

He's like an old man before his time (they're the same age, mid 30's and married for 4 years). She's constantly trying to get them to do stuff together, even stuff out with her interest such as going to see his fave football team but his response is 'I can watch it on Sky, what's the point?'. It's not a money issue as they can afford to do it.

Anyway, we spent several hours on the phone last night and she's a mess (I'm not condoning her affair, she knows this but this guy has given her a window to how life might be - problem is, he's also married and there's kids involved there. Not good)

To go back to my BIL, I'm wondering if I called him and said, 'look, you need to pull your head out of the sand, she loves you as a person but life is too short to be miserable and one day she'll pack up and go with no coming back, if you don't want that, then you guys have to do some serious work and soul searching to get this marriage back on track'

One bit of me says, not my business. One bit of me says, I love them very much and he's a good man (albeit needing a kick up the arse)

If my DSis found out, it wouldn't cause a terminal fall out between us but when I suggested a while ago that I speak to BIL she said no as 'he needed to understand himself'- the guy is clearly struggling though.

I'm married myself and consider myself to have a very good marriage but I know that takes work and it's not all magically working with no effort on both of our parts.

Go on, flame me, tell me I'm a nosey busybody or whatever. I'll just be sad if a marriage ends when all avenues weren't exhausted.

I would talk to him for sure, but to me it looks like there's no way they can fix that marriage.

TBH, if she us having such a serious affair perhaps she shouldn't be with your BIL?

I don't think you are a nosy busybody, but I think this has got the potential to backfire badly on you. Maybe just ask him if he wants to talk and take on a listening role only - you could end up upsetting both of them, though.

I don't condone cheating at all. If you feel the urge to cheat, either speak to your partner about what's gone wrong in the relationship, or end it.

I can't see how this relationship is going to be salvaged from this.

No sympathy for her though sorry, if she wanted to fix the relationship she should have tried Relate INSTEAD of cheating, not after it.

I agree that the marriage looks unsalvageable from just my post, but she wishes it was so different, otherwise I think she would just have upped and left before now.

Even at her birthday he didn't arrange anything as didn't know when she would be free? What?!

She just wants him to take some initiative in their life, or even just himself for starters. He was quite poorly a while back and she nursed him through that but Doc said he had to make lifestyle changes, such as losing some weight etc and he's not bothered about that either.
If they go on holiday, she arranges it all. If they go for dinner it's always suggested and booked by her etc etc.

So your sister is continuing to invest emotionally outside the marriage, but sort of bizarrely wanting your BIL to do the 'pick me dance' but and he cant be arsed.

Instead of wanting them to save this I would be having the urge to put this 'marriage' out of its misery. Bullet to the head rather than 'talk' to either party. In fact by being tempted to involve yourself it just prolongs those death throes.

It it is not your circus, not your monkeys.

I wouldn't try to convince anyone to try and save a relationship with a cheating article like your sister

I absolutely agree she shouldn't be cheating and have told her so. It's made a bad situation so much worse but some marriages have survived and successfully moved on from infidelity. (Although I don't think I could forgive it in mine)
He's willing to forgive it and move on but doesn't seem able to know how to make changes. Maybe he just needs a hand hold and someone to talk to?
I realise this sounds like I'm exonerating my DSis and that's not the case but she's so lonely

What possible good do you think you will do? The marriage is dead in all but name and he's been told many times what she wants and doesn't want to do it. Stay well out of it.

I think him forgiving and wanting to move on is huge and if she's not seeing that as enough she needs to leave. It's not fair on him, and she's clearly not happy. She can't continue an affair and expect him to do all the work trying to save the marriage, its s two way street.

I'm sorry to be so harsh but he should LTB.

None of you are being harsh and I realise that my sister doesn't come out well in any of this. She's a lovely person though, and in bits over this.

You're all probably right. I should be encouraging her to make the break, not for this other guy as I think she needs to ditch that ASAP, but because things don't seem to be able to change and now she's making bad decisions.

I'm just sad over it. I was chief BM at their wedding and to stand and watch a lifetime of promise being washed away when it could be so different isn't nice. That's life though.

Actually I'd say have a stern word with him but afterwards tell her you have done so.

If he doesn't buck up let her leave him. Sounds like he clearly isn't bothered tbh.

I also do not condone cheating but if I'm honest can see why she is.

PullingMyHair
I genuinely think he might take it from me as an outsider, but one he knows only wants good things for them. If I didn't think this marriage could be saved I'd be helping her file the Decree Nisi!

If her repeatedly cheating hasn't got him to change then I doubt much else would. Neither seem willing to put the work in. If I were you I wouldn't bother, and just encourage your sister to leave both and try being single a while. She absolutely cannot expect her relationship to improve while she is actively cheating.

but she wishes it was so different, otherwise I think she would just have upped and left before now.

She is sleeping with some else and has not left her husband. She doesnt wish it was different. She is spending timr and emotional energy on someone else.

If she really wishes her marriage would work, she would stop that and spend time and energy on her marriage.

Spend the money on relate. Not football matches. Doesnt matter if he has forgiven her. She needs to tell him how she feels and get it all out.

I think that it's not so much that he's willing to forgive and forget, but yet another thing that would take too much effort. He doesn't want to lose weight, he doesn't want to go out, and he doesn't want to break up his marriage because the alternative is more hard work.

It's a crappy marriage. I second all of the others saying you should encourage your DSis to end the marriage and the affair and move on with their lives.

Her co affairee (or whatever you call it) did not show her how 'life could be', he is showing her a fantasy life. When she actually leaves her marriage, has to singly parent some of the time and has to lose her children the rest of the time, then she will be seeing how life could be. And will this exciting man be so exciting without the stability of her current relationship? Or will he just be a normal man with flaws, compromises to be made etc?

However, I think your sis has gone past the point of no return here and her best option is to finish the marriage, try to settle the divorce as quickly and amicably as possible (hard, considering what she has done) and then move to a positive co-parenting relationship.

I think the only conversation you should have is with your sister.

She is a cunt and he deserves better.

Then when you're finished that chat ring the om wife and tell her.

I feel rather for your sister. Mid 30s is too young to give up on life and watch telly. DH sounds like a long drink of water - very, very passive.

You could talk to him but will he be prepared to put the effort into his relationship that it needs? If you suspect that fundamentally it's a personality clash between them (he's a slug, she isn't) then try it, but don't expect it to work.

Contrary to MN rules, IRL rules mean that relationships are work. He's not doing it.

And what is she doing about it? Does she secretly wish he'd make a scene and try and woo her back? All sorts of trouble there, not least that he probably will just sigh and flick the remote instead.

Lanaorana

She would LOVE for him to show any sign that he's invested in their 'coupledom'

He's not a bad guy, just lazy. She's not a bad woman, just doesn't want to be stifled and live like a geriatric.

Yes, she is so bloody wrong for this affair. 100%. I realise it doesn't sound like she wants her marriage to work but she would have been off by now otherwise.

Surely some of you on MN can understand loneliness and then being desired/wanted and by someone else who's interested in you. It's easy to have your head turned. Doesn't make it right, agreed, but there's little compassion on here sometimes.

Anyway, I know she's out tomorrow at work so I'm going to call the home phone on the pretence that I've forgot and see if I can get him to chat with me. I'm not going to push anything, but maybe be needs some support too. Outsiders can often see a situation better than those in the midst of it.

Thanks to all who replied. I appreciate every response

Larry

Unfair of me to say when I don't know this man she's having the affair with, but he doesn't sound all that great TBH.

I've tried to explain that the honeymoon period won't last and there will be upsets, house moves, maintenance payments to be made, sadness at him missing events in the kids lives etc etc and she's agreeing but who knows

I've also said that if she does leave, it shouldn't be for OM but because her marriage wasn't working. If he leaves his wife separate to that and they work out then so be it.

Talk to him I would. Sil knows you're close and maybe she's hoping you will speak to him. It's a little odd that she confiding in you as I would have expected your loyalty to lie with your brother seeing as you're so close.

It is getting involved but I can't see the harm. Maybe he needs a dr visit for depression or maybe he genuinely misunderstood his wife. Good luck

Peachy it's my sister and her husband.
However, sister knows that him and I get on well and that I'm always fair etc

You say you don't condone her infidelity but still make it sound as if BIL is unreasonable for being shocked and upset by your sister's affair. For someone 'crippled by guilt' months' ago she is still seeing the OM.

Donkeys, that's the thing - he doesn't seem shocked or upset!
When he found out about the one night stand then initially he was upset but then carried on like it never happened. He now knows they're seeing each other more and his only comment was 'well I applaud his taste in women but don't know what you see in him'
Is it any wonder that my DSis feels like she's only there to cook, do housework etc
She said she wished he'd gone nuts cos then she would have known he'd cared.
I suggested his reluctance to tackle was because he didn't want to lose her and hoped it would all just fizzle out.
I understand that it's difficult from a MN forum post not to think of him as an emotionally unstable moron and her as a home wrecking callous bitch