What is it about me?

[Altwoo]

Hi All. I'm finding myself in a pattern of relationships that I can't seem to break out of.

My personality is that I am quite 'Type A' - ambitious, bit of a workaholic, opinionated although not extrovert - I'm naturally quite shy.

Initially I attract men who are drawn to that confidence and drive (I think). I also back a big effort to be a nice person and treat others well. So with my boyfriend, he pursued me for some time, and we did finally get together. Then, over time, those same qualities get pushed back on me, so boyfriend - in a fight - will tell me that I am too opinionated, that I think I am superior to him, I push things too much.

I feel really conflicted. On the one hand, I'm sure I'm not an 'easy' girlfriend - I donhave strong views and I do like to be in control. But on the other, it feels hard to be with someone who often tells me he doesn't like that. I feel there was no false advertising! And I really do take things on board, will always put my hands up if I was in the wrong, always try and be better.

But after another fight where my character flaws are again highlighted, I am feeling very defeated. It's not the first time a relationship has gone this way, and I'm starting to feel it's me. But apart from bite my tongue as much as possible, what do I do?

I'm so tired of this. I think I'm quite a nice person. Why can't I make this work?

Are you quite physically attractive?

I think a lot of men will really go on looks first. So if you fit some ideal (of theirs) for looks then they sort of "put you into a category" and maybe don't factor your personality into it?

I'm a sweary, boorish feminist type. I also am a member of an ethnic minority seen by some men as "submissive", speak in quite an RP tone, and am a size 8. I prefer to dress in a classic style as it suits me better.

I often get this disconnect when dates think I'm all "nicey nicey" and have no sexual history and I'm not (and not afraid to say so)

I'm not actually sure what the answer is, I certainly don't edit myself or intend to (that way madness lies) I haven't struggled for serious admirers generally , it's just finding someone I'm compatible with!

I've found that as I've got older and more "myself" I tend to draw more like people to me? (No romance yet, but I think a relationship should stem from shared interests and goals rather than a photo on OD or someone "seeing" me physically and being attracted but not being in the same social wavelength)

Also, I think unless you happily married your uni or childhood sweetheart, many people get a lot of crap/wasted time on the dating/relationship scene, so just having the resilience to move on and not waste energy on bad interactions (enjoying gassing on mumsnet aside ) is important.

We sound alike!

so boyfriend - in a fight - will tell me that I am too opinionated, that I think I am superior to him, I push things too much

That basically means he's not confident enough for you and he is rather insecure.

I wonder if you're going for similar types?

You've written a lot about how the boyfriends feel about you at the end. You've not said anything about how you were feeling about them.

How readily do you get rid of the relationships that aren't working out for you?

It slightly suggests that you cling to "a boyfriend" even when it isn't right, trying to change him into being the boyfriend you want until he calls it a day because you are too annoying telling him how to be?

Bless you both.

I make an effort with my appearance andam quite feminine in how I dress, but have quite broad interests.

However everyone I've been in long term relationships with, I've known as friends first.

It feels that they're drawn to the alpha female-ness, but over time become insecure about that, and then put me in my place about it.

My boyfriend used to think I was great, but now if we fight, all this resentment and hostility comes out and it's a bit of a shock. And I can't find a good way to say Maybe this is more about your insecurities, than my behaviour.

Or is it? Do I need to calm down?

@runrabbitrunrabbit

I suppose from my perspective, I feel happy until there's a fight when suddenly all of this latent hostility emerges. So it's his perspective on me that upsets me (and I feel it's unfair to say You're too opinionated when that's my character).

Do I cling on? Not sure on that. Average relationship length 2 years? This relationship I thought we were super committed, live together etc, but I can't ignore the times he says these things.

Some of it also feels like it's argument style - he doesn't play fair or stick to the topic - but my fear is he really thinks that.

And because I've heard this before from other boyfriends, I' starting to think I'm the common denominator.

@tatiana (don't know how to loop people's names in properly, sorry!)

Yes, I think that's fair. Creative types, I'm usually the breadwinner etc.

When I have dated someone more Alpha, I felt insecure.

And I suppose my question is - in this particular relationship, where maybe he does feel insecure - how do I make this better without altering my personality?

We live together, he has kids who I get on well with, we have genuinely been building a life together / but this keeps coming up.

TBH if you're not compatible you're not compatible, you don't have to get a proper relationship going with everyone you date for three months.

What's an example of a "fight" for you? How does it start and what's it about?

Also, a lot of people have annoying traits but still manage to keep partners. If the problem is "I secretly think he thinks I'm annoying" but he's still with you, then maybe you're overthinking things?

We all have flaws and if you want to change yourself then everyone can do with personal growth

but do it for yourself not in a "keep my man" context.

It's not you OP. It really isn't. It sounds very much like his problem. I'm allegedly attractive, articulate and stand my ground. I've also enjoyed a very successful career. Every man I've had a serious relationship with has been attracted to the whole package and my confidence. When the relationship starts to flounder they look for easy things to label and often hanker for the opposite of what they have. I've heard more than once "you don't need me". It's true. I've never needed a man. I didn't need one at the start of the relationship so nothing but his perception, feelings and sense of usefulness (for want of a better word) has changed.

One of the reasons XH was attracted to me was because he could talk with me about economics and current affairs which he'd been unable to do with his previous wife (he wasn't critical of her at all he just mentioned this early on). He also said he really liked the fact that I didn't keep phoning him during the day and wasn't needy. Fast forward 15 years and during our breakup I found messages between him and OW. He said how he loved that she phoned him all the time as it made him feel wanted. He said how he loved talking about politics with her (she worked in local government) as I was too superficial on the subject. I think that when a relationship is breaking down people cast around for easy reasons to try to explain changed feelings that are sometimes very hard to articulate.

Sounds like incompatiblity on both sides. Either you both need to be the fiery types who like a fight, or one of you needs to be the chilled one who doesn't rise to it if you're being over-opiniated and lets it slide in light of your better qualities. If he is normally more chilled and has just had enough, then maybe you need to look at your behaviour and be honest as to whether it is too much. It's fine to be feisty but if it is too much you can't just say well he knew what i was like so that's how I'll always be. Not unless you're okay to lose him. We are all works in progress and love can need compromise.

I think that's pretty standard in relationships you know...the very things that attract you also repel you in a different light. Just keep on being you.

I think that's fair. Creative types, I'm usually the breadwinner etc

Ok so that's the problem. Many men don't have a problem with that in theory but in practice, they struggle with it. That's not to say you couldn't find a creative type with whom it would work, or one who earns a similar amount, but you haven't thus far.

When I have dated someone more Alpha, I felt insecure.

So you've experienced the flip side, and have experienced what your bfs are feeling. I think there's a happy medium. The guys you're dating are clearly not working for you - you need to be with someone who is equally confident and earning a comparable amount. But perhaps not so competitive/driven that it makes you feel insecure.

I think that there is a certain type of (romantic) man who follows a certain script - fancy girl, pursue girl, confuse lust and love, fall in love. All the while suffering from confirmation bias and seeing what they want to see in the woman rather than who they are. Especially if the girl is very good looking or already confirms to their "type".

Then, after a while, seeing the person that they actually are and it not quite matching up with what they thought.

In the meantime, the girl is left confused and bewildered as she was the one pursued in the first place.

My XH saw me as confident, outgoing, opinionated, worldly - and these were all things that he wanted to be. So, at first, he admired me, kind of submitted, in a sort of way, to me being the extrovert in the relationship.

When things began to sour for him (because, basically, he wanted to look elsewhere), he began to realise that he couldn't be me, he didn't have it in him. So I reminded him continually of his social ineffectualness, his inability to be an extrovert. Every time I socialised, or put forward an opinion, or people sought me out to talk to, it rubbed his nose in the fact that nobody did that with him. He felt a failure. So it ended.

Any of that ring true for you, OP?

@narlene that was really insightful - I am definitely an over thinker, and you’re right - it’s that during a fight I feel he ‘secretly reveals’ his hostility towards me.

In reality, I think he’s just not great in arguments, and because I stay calm and try and be reasonable, whilst he gets irate, that in itself may make him feel insecure.

So I am going to take him at face value and not let the fights overshadow everything. And he has agreed that if we keep fighting badly, we’ll see someone to help us figure it out. He’s acknowledged he handles confrontation badly.

@zaphod I see what you’re saying. Whilst in terms of behaviour we’re similar (both introverts who prefer to hang out with each other above everything), I think that may translate to our careers. I run 2 businesses, whilst he has worked at the same place for 12 years and has just been made redundant. I’m sure that’s not helping him feel good. It also means it should pass.

@bluegarden oh my god yes. He’s a hopeless romantic and really pursued me at the beginning. I think life not being a fairytale is a constant disappointment for him. I’m an utter, utter realist so he gets frustrated when i’m super pragmatic.

How old are you OP?

It doesn't sound to me like you need relationship counselling to resolve fights, but a bf who's a better match.

Someone one thinks you're too opinionated and believed you think you're superior to him, who is constantly throwing character flaws at you in fights - is not the right person for you.

Getting irate and irrational in arguments is a very poor trait in partner going forward. It makes it difficult to resolve issues calmly and reasonably.

My question here is why you think you need to stick at this? What did you learn about relationships growing up? Why do you have to try to fix something that isn't working well rather than find a relationship that does? Do you believe relationships are inherently conflicted and problematic?

I do think some men, not all obviously, are initially attracted to certain traits that they think are sexy - confidence, intelligence, strong opinions, a wild side - basically quite strong character traits. Then, down the line, the things that drew them seem to irritate them and they expect you to adapt those traits or even change them completely.

I've had this before and it's both upsetting and frustrating, because I've never hidden these sides to myself, but suddenly what was once attractive is now something that they seem to consider a character flaw. I think the simple answer is, it's them, not you. Keep being who you are and just chalk it down to incompatibility. You don't need to change, you just weren't with the right person.

I also think woman who are outwardly confident, but are slightly vulnerable underneath a confident facade are like magnets to quite narcissist men. They get maximum enjoyment of breaking your confidence down. I say that from first hand experience!

I would flip this and ask what you are looking for in a partner? You are part of the decision making process so you are picking these men. Are they alike? Do you have s type?