Terrible relationship with DM, now DGM

[EssentialHummus]

Will start by saying I'm a sleep-deprived new mum, so not sure my reactions/feelings are proportionate at the moment.

I have a poor relationship with my mother and (partly in consequence) my father. She is anxious to the point that her anxiety coloured all our interactions - I learnt early that I could never tell her anything, at all, because I'd be met with hysteria rather than reassurance. Things ramped up as I became and adult and moved (far, far) away, and after a lot of therapy (ongoing) I feel I have a comfortable handle on our relationship.

Father tends to respond with "Oh but that's how she is"/will ask me to put up with all sorts of shit from her, including outright (usually harmless) lies, conversations in which she is always the hard done-by, excluded maligned poor soul even though in practice her family and his go out of their ways to include her.

Other stuff, which to me was more important growing up- constant low-level disappointment with my appearance, hair, clothes. Took me a good long while to realise that I am just fine and even (shock!) attractive.

So now DD is here. I obviously called parents from the hospital to let them know, Skyped them on Monday and again yesterday so DD could gurgle at them. During all calls there was lots of anxiety-provoking shite/questions that were just wildly out of kilter - "Why didn't she wake up when x happened, is her hearing OK?"
"When are you weaning her?"
"Aren't you in pain?"

And so on. Everyone else somehow manages to just talk, you know, normally. I responded to her in a level (and honest) way - that it's all fine, I don't need nappies sent from Tel Aviv (??), etc.

During yesterday's call she also said something like, Oh, I don't think that green outfit suits her, the other yellow one was much better.

It riled me. One, DD is 6 days old and in whatever sleepsuit is clean and vaguely fits - in spite of all my gender neutral aspirations we wouldn't bloody care if it was bright pink with fairies on it. Two, the clothes thing - again, I feel like she's criticising/undermining the choices I'm making. And again, everyone else manages to have a convo with me without saying this sort of shit.

I replied to the effect that we're busy and dressing her how we dress her. She's got the hide of a rhino so I don't think that achieved much.

So. Phew. I think written down it's a small thing, and I have 18+ years of demonstrating to her that I'll parent how I parent and if she doesn't like it she can go hang, but does this kind of thing in particular need a response/assertion?

I am wholly uninterested in whether she is narcissistic or anything else - I want to get on with my family life, not focus on hers.

Oh fuck, it's an essay.

TL:DR - how do I maintain the minimal relationship I have with DM now that DD is here and her anxiety-provoking shite has ramped up again?

I want to get on with my family life, not focus on hers - then stop involving her in the small details of your life, I know it sounds harsh but it sounds as though you are secretly wanting her approval.
Just enjoy your lovely baby, you don't need to call/skype her all the time - it sounds like she's always been a worrier and she's not going to change now. Let her contact you next time.

Does she live abroad? - at least you don't need to have too much to do with her.

One word. Distance.
And it sounds as though you are doing just fine, you recognise her attacks for what they are, an attempt to wrest dominance of a situation so that she can be the centre of things. Ignore, ignore, stay at arms' length and keep up the 'we can manage just fine, everything is good, midwives are happy' stonewalling.
And congratulations on your DD!

rag I don't think I'm doing much to involve her, the questions from her came apropos of nothing.

Let her contact you next time.

They've said "Oh, we don't want to disturb you" and no amount of me saying "Call when you like, if I'm sleeping my phone'll be on silent" has changed that. Which also fucks me off.

Congratulations to you on the birth of your DD.

You need to put mental as well as physical distance now between you and your parents. You need firmer and higher boundaries re these people, they are still too low and you really do not need to Skype them more than say once a week and that is if you want to.

Your mother and father were not good parents to you when growing up and such people more often than not become the same as grandparents as well. Such disordered of thinking people really do not change and they have not changed a bit since your own childhood. You do not need their approval any longer, not that your mother in particular would ever give it to you anyway.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; what is your role here?. Your dad's role most certainly is one of enabler to her; he is the bystander here acting out of his own self preservation and want of a quiet life. He is not reliable either and has failed to protect you from his wife's excesses of behaviours.

It is very sad that she has anxiety but you need to know that you can't wish it away. And actually it does sound like you are anxious too so perhaps the best thing would be for you to distance yourself from her and concentrate on your own child. You want her to change but the thing is ... you can't make that happen. There is nothing you can do to change her. She is who she is and you have to accept that. Wishing she was the kind of mum you think she should be is getting you nowhere and dwelling on it won't help you to develop a healthy relationship with your own child. Seriously, you need to be thinking your own child right now.

Just be glad you are physically a long way away!!

Having a new baby and becoming a Mum can throw up all sorts of sensitivities about our own parents. Don't skype for a while - you have lots of things nearer home to concentrate on! - just enjoy your lovely new baby and try and put Mum out of your mind. Congrats!

They've said "Oh, we don't want to disturb you" and no amount of me saying "Call when you like, if I'm sleeping my phone'll be on silent" has changed that. Which also fucks me off.

I think you need to examine your own feelings - you sound as though you don't want to be the one contacting your parents all the time but then get upset if they don't contact you . I would honestly try to distance yourself emotionally from them - not going NC or anything like that - but just concentrate on your new baby, your partner and local friends.

Congratulations on DD!

Your description of you Mum sounds identical to mine...I'm just about 22 weeks behind you!! So will be reading this thread with interest.

My mum is really making an effort at the moment, as my Dad died earlier this year (after 12 months with a brain tumour) when I was 9 weeks pregnant. It was a tough year, with some massive rows, and me laying it down to her that I would go NC if she didn't start treating me with some basic respect. So will be seeing how that goes.

Right at the moment I haven't got it in me to go NC, and I imagine you probably feel similar having just given birth, just the thought of it is emotionally draining.

We have 5 hours by car between us, you seem to have put more distance then that. People always think this is a great thing, however I find the downside is that I can't just go and visit (or have her visit) for an afternoon. It always involves multiple night stays, and therefore arguments and stress. Have your parents got plans to visit yet? Maybe think about how your going to handle it, and lay down some ground rules, so it runs smoother when the time does come.

My mums coming up to stay for a few nights this weekend....the anxiety nightmares, that always occur before a visit, kicked in last night :-(

First step is accepting the way she is and accepting you can't do anything about it. The next - harder - step is stopping you wished it and she were different; because that's what's upsetting you

Then deciding on tactics- ie, telling her to ring you on Sunday at 4 for example. And not answering questions about colours of sleepsuits etc - changing the subject every single time.

I had to do this with my mother and then she'd say, "You're not answering my question!" And I'd reply, "No, I'm not," and change the subject again!

It's very hard because you are probably feeling the lack of a supportive mother right now but she isn't going to change

I think you need to examine your own feelings - you sound as though you don't want to be the one contacting your parents all the time but then get upset if they don't contact you

I think that's fair and accurate.

Thanks all.

Thing is - this is your big amazing chance to move the goalposts. It is the best, most solid reason you will ever have to change things.

So right - the contacting. You have suggested they call you. They dont want to - oooh we don't want to disturb - the usual power play - making YOU call. So... you don't.

'We haven't heard from you in ages'
'Well I did tell you you can call whenever'
'We don't want to disturb you. You always call, we would feel better if you called - etc'
'Well things have changed, we have the baby now so life is very different here! I've suggested you call and that it's fine. If you don't want to, you might find yourselves waiting a while - that's fine with me'
'You've changed, you don't want to call...'
'No, I have a young baby. Would you really expect my schedule to be the same as before? You will have to get used to things being different'

• and stick to it.

Others have good advice on the rest, but one thing you could do is point out to her how sad you are that all she seems to want to do is criticise. 'I would have thought you would seem happier to have GD, but the only thing you seem interested in is criticising silly things like clothing. That's quite sad, wouldn't you rather talk about nice things?'

fizzy that's great advice

Congratulations on your new daughter OP

It'll take a little while for you to settle and feel your feet with a baby in the house. Trust your own judgement, meanwhile, deflect, deflect, deflect and don't let anything get to you.

The only criticisms that you should take to heart are the ones you feel might be justified. Choice of babygrow isn't one of them for sure.

Congratulations!
I can certainly relate to anxiety transference from my M. I couldn't do anything right since I became a parent. If I did everything her way, perhaps it would be different.
I get what you mean, I wish some people could just have normal chats, make the right sounds rather than throwing in some anxious remarks which can cause self-doubt.
At least you have geographical distance. I agree with Fizzy's advice.

Thanks take. The good thing is (possibly because of all the therapy) that I am actually very calm as a mum seven days in. Even the hospital staff were commenting about it. I know what anxiety does and I'm doing my best not to let it in.

Another "WTF how are these my parents?" moment from that call - I told them that we'd be ready for a visit in a few weeks if they like (they live 5 hrs away, as PP picked up). In response? Dad may come because he has a work thing in Spain around then so he'll drop in, Mum can't because of the dog. That's right, you heard it here first .

And I know my dad's work well enough to know that he could take or leave a work trip to bloody Spain - why not just say, yes, I'd love to meet her, how's the weekend of X September?

WTF can't I have normal parents??

I have an anxious mother too. She sounds very similar to yours. My brother has let the batshittery take over his life too and I've worked very hard to not let it do the same to me.

Watching these replies with interest. No kids yet but we'll be TTCing from January onwards, and I already know that I'm going to have to be very firm with boundaries etc when the time comes. I mentioned we were planning on a trip to NYC next year and I was met with all kinds of hysteria about what the pressure on planes would do to a foetus. Won't make that mistake again.

I find it very sad I can't have the kind of relationship with my mum that my friends have with theirs - reassuring, supportive, open - but that's that I suppose. She's so great in other ways, but she's let irrational thoughts consume her life.

It's not very nice of them just to try to squeeze you in to your Dad's schedule, rather than making a special effort for you and new granddaughter.

However, since it seems you mum is the major problem surely some time with just your Dad could be really lovely. I would have loved for that opportunity when my Dad was alive, my mum would never give us time on our own together (jealousy I think, me and my Dad were more similar intellectually and had same sense of humour, than he was with Mum), even to the point of forcing us to have phone calls on speaker phone, so we rarely got any privacy :-(

Then maybe your Mum will visit later when she realises she has missed out, which buys you a bit more time to get used to being a Mum, and finding your confidence.

Sounds very similar to my mother too. Very anxious, passes it on to me, criticism, snide comments and near hysteria over tiny stupid things.

My daughter is 4 months now and we're getting there. My parents live local so I visit alot. I was pretty much downright rude for the first few months and snapped at and made jokes about comments she made. Maybe not the best or most mature way but it's the only way I felt I could get the upper hand with her. Things are a bit strained now, but I think she walks on egg shells a bit more now with me

I used to take all her shite and just ignore it, as she does have a good heart underneath it all. But now I have my daughter there's no way I'm ignoring things and letting things slide. I don't want her speaking the same way to her as she did to me growing up

I hear you on the wish you had normal parents. My mum acted like a toddler with tantrums and huffs etc etc when I was growing up, and my dad very much the enabler.

I think as others have said this new life event is a good chance to reset things. Don't put up with her rubbish, put her in her place, let her know you won't entertain her anxiety induced criticism etc etc and hopefully it will work out when she realised she can't get to you.

Re the flaky visiting/not calling thing. Could be a defense mechanism to not be hurt I'd you didnt want them to visit? I know that's likely not the case but my parents can be very stand offish as though they don't expect you to want to see them.

user possibly. I've had a comment from her on day 1 of "Oh, when is MIL arriving?" when I'd told her before quite clearly that we'd let everyone on both sides know when we were ready (everyone is abroad).

The dad thing is odd - he did the same when I was first over here at uni on my own. Came for "work", spent two days in London, took everyone in my halls out for pizza and was generally great. But why hide behind work?

But why hide behind work?

Maybe that's the only way he can get around your mother.

As much as everyone goes on about Dads being the enabler, they are often between a rock and a hard place. He will be putting up with all of your mum's neuroticisms and anxieties, and any controlling behaviour too.

Maybe "work" trips are your Dads method of getting time alone with you, and you should be grateful for that.

And I know my dad's work well enough to know that he could take or leave a work trip to bloody Spain - why not just say, yes, I'd love to meet her, how's the weekend of X September?

because that would elevate you to being 'Important'

You need to be reminded that the dog comes higher up the chain, his work, the crossword etc...

Some great advice on here OP.

I have some very similar issues with my mum.

The best piece of advice I can give you (and is something that I'm trying to consistently implement!) is to keep your communication with her basic and superficial. Don't give away too many details.

If she says something about the colour or style of clothes or anything else that you feel undermines you just respond with "ok" and change the subject. Don't give her an outlet to express her anxiety and make it all about her. So, if you're having a bad day with your baby, don't confide in her - you will never get the support you're looking for.

Trust me, there is no point confronting or trying to decipher her behaviour. It's a complete waste of time. She will not change, she has no self awareness and is wholly occupied with her own thoughts and opinions.

It's a very difficult dynamic but when you lower your expectations of her to zero, it becomes a lot easier to navigate the backhanded and critical comments.

Therapy has also been very beneficial for me.

fizzy I followed your advice today re how to handle calls; lo and behold, they called!