Is this date rape or just an indiscretion?

[KipperTie]

Hi,
I'm currently going through a lot of relationship upheaval and as a result have been having counselling. It's caused me to really consider my past experiences with men.
When I was 16, I briefly "dated" a 21 year old. On GCSE results day he and a friend took me on the bus to get my results. We stayed out all day drinking with one of my friends. On the way home, I was so drunk I couldn't stay sitting on the bus seat and when I got off I had to be dragged by my armpits through town to hos brother's car (I only vaguely remember this but someone I knew saw me that afternoon and commented on it at the time). Boyfriend took me to his house to sober up (I was scared what my parents would think). I ended up lying on his bed and we were kissing. I was fine with that but that was all we had done until that point (we had only been going out for a month or so and hadn't done more than kissing on the mouth and touching over clothes). My memory is fuzzy now and I was still very drunk but somehow he rearranged my clothes and, without asking, penetrated me. I said no and tried to push him off. He continued for a couple of minutes, saying "come on" etc. I said no again and shoved him and he stopped. I sobered up quickly after that and went home. I never made a big deal about it because he didn't finish, it was only for a few minutes and I was drunk (I don't think I even told my friends at the time); was that the right thing to do? Recently I recounted the story to a friend and their response was "you were raped". I was such a doormat...I even continued to pursue him after that and he dumped me by standing me up a couple of weeks later. 😣Anyway, I guess some clarity might help me decide whether to bring it up at counselling and help me move on a bit. I have a lot of unresolved rage towards men, haha sigh. Sorry this is long. X

Yes. What you are describing is rape.
Sex without your consent.
You said no clearly and he should have stopped immediately.
He shouldn't have started in the first place!
He took advantage when you were drunk.
Definitely bring this up with your counsellor. Hopefully it will help to actually work through it. It sounds like it's had an impact on your life and your attitude towards men. Which is not surprising in the least.
Hugs and very best of luck.
Hopefully you can move on with your life.

Rape. I'm so sorry.

Thanks for the reply Conor.

"It sounds like it's had an impact on your life and your attitude towards men. Which is not surprising in the least."
Yes, definitely. It came only a few months after losing my virginity to my then boyfriend who dumped me by phone the next day because "he was scared about getting me pregnant". Set the scene really well for later.
Will definitely discuss with counsellor. X

Hope you are feeling ok.
The main thing to remember is that it was not your fault.
Neither was it your fault that the other bugger dumped you in case he got you pregnant.
Definitely worth exploring as to wether this has set the tone for you subconsciously choosing 'bad guys' and if so, turning that around and realising you are worth so much more.

I feel a bit deflated I suppose, and like an idiot not to have seen it for what it was at the time.
As for the other incident, I actually told my mom about that when it happened and her response was that I had acted like a tart, what else did I expect and she was disappointed in / angry with me. Didn't tell her anything else after that!!
I definitely chose bad guys for a long time as a result, and then went the other way at 23 and married a very nice, safe guy. Now I'm in a sexless marriage (14 years @ 4 times a year). Recently discovered a lot of secret debt (partly due to gambling) hence the counselling which is blowing everything wide open!
Thanks so much for your posts, appreciate the time spent ☺️

Thanks Trolley for taking the time. Useful to have opinions even if they're uncomfortable. X

Please don't feel deflated. Feel proud of yourself for identifying this as a trigger from your past and dealing with it.
And you are not an idiot. Your mother's response that 'you asked for it' (almost) is very wrong and a very outdated attitude.
Try and put that to one side.
If nobody has ever told you they are proud of you before, then let me be the first to say you should feel proud of yourself for going out and being proactive in seeking counselling and moving forward.
Be strong. Do what you need to do and think of yourself for once. You can have the life you want and you will be much happier for it.
Are you looking to leave your Husband?
Or is it just one step at a time at the moment?

Thanks, that's such a kind message and it means a lot!
I found out about the debt last November, after a similar "unveiling" a couple of years ago. It was through opening post left lying around for ages. I felt like I'd been betrayed as he hasn't held up his end of paying things off (which we agreed on a couple of years ago) and has made things worse. That put a microscope on any other cracks in the relationship, which was when I finally called out the lack of physical intimacy, having thought it a problem for some time. We've been to counselling together but I think I've come to the conclusion that we need to split. He can't/won't discuss details of the debts and is evasive. Won't/can't discuss how he feels. I find it incredibly awkward discussing the sexual problems and he doesn't help by shutting it down with "it's fine", I'm just tired but I do want sex with you". At this point, the thought of sex with him makes me shudder - I think I have lost all respect for him. A shame because he is a nice man. He's due to leave our house and move in with a mate in the next couple of weeks so I guess I'll see how I feel then. It's almost taken me to breaking point to get this far, but perhaps there's a light at the end of the tunnel in sight. X

It sounds like you've processed things and eventually come to the point of realising that it's simply never going to work. Largely due to his irresponsible behaviour, inability to admit his mistakes and reluctance to talk. So that's a good thing on your part. You've tried. He hasn't. The failure is on his part. Yes, you may still have a long way to go, and yes you may wobble a bit once he's gone, but ultimately you will be much better off.
Being involved in a relationship with no respect and intimacy is damaging for your self esteem. Make some plans for when he leaves.
Plan a night in our out. Even if it's just a favourite feel good DVD and a bottle of wine or some hot chocolate.
Buy some lovely new bedding (even just a cheap throw or nice cushion)
Start a new hobby or pick up something you've neglected for some time.
Make some plans to redecorate (even if it's just a splash of your favourite colour on one wall)
Revel in the fact that you can do what you want whenever you want as there is nobody else to consider.
Start living your life for yourself.
I did this 4 years ago and am so much happier (a little bored and lonely sometimes but I'd never go back in a million years to living with someone and feeling like shit every day!)
Onwards and upwards!

Yes, I'd say you've hit the nail on the head. It could work, but only if I control all his finances (no thanks), am happy with infrequent and poor quality sex (nope again) and can live with barely any emotional intimacy (one guess...). I read "too good to leave, too bad to stay" and there were a number of points that rang true and suggested I would be happier leaving. It's just very scary (as you know) and I have ignored my gut for so long it's hard to trust it (especially thanks to some of my more crap man choices, see earlier, ha)! It's so sad as well - my marriage ending is the adult equivalent of realising there's no Father Christmas for me.
But you are absolutely right, I'm at a point where I can break away and be stronger, or play it safe and end up damaging myself and him further. Thanks for the brilliant suggestions (you've definitely enabled me there) and for giving me the hope that it will get better; if you can do it...
I feel much more positive now, and congrats on successfully making the change yourself! ☺️💐X

Ah that's great kipper I am very proud of you. You finally know what's right for you and that in itself can be very empowering.
And yeah it's scary. But you know what? The idea of it is actually scarier than the reality. Sure, there are finances and logistics etc to sort. Paperwork and all that. It will be tough. But you are definitely worth more. Even if that just means being happy and comfortable in your own skin for a bit.
Hope the therapy / counselling helps but I reckon you are on the right track now so you go girl. I've honestly never looked back!
If you ever feel you are wobbling, please feel free to message me on here. I'll get back to you when I can. In the meantime, just look at the relationship threads and see how many other people have not been sure about things yet the moment they voice it on here it's like a light bulb moment!
Be strong. You can do it.
to you too!