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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What happened here?

15 replies

Rightwrong · 19/08/2017 15:20

This is about my 18 year old dd. She was in a brief relationship with a guy (19) who she wasn't really clicking with on the 'boyfriend' level, so they agreed to just be friends. He wanted to wait for her in case she changed her mind, but she was clear on saying she just wanted the friendship part and he seemed ok with that.
She has spent time with him on that basis for quite a while and stayed over at his, just hanging out- all fine.

A few nights ago she went to his place and stayed over- usual stuff- youtubing, gaming.
He asked if she wanted to drink that night and she wasn't bothered, but agreed.
He gives her a bottle of Baileys and he apparently had a bottle of 4%beer. He kept insisting she kept drinking more- shoving the bottle in her face and acting drunk. Despite him only having the beer.

She kept falling asleep and he kept waking her up, getting her to drink more. She said she felt pretty drunk and tired.

He then wakes her from sleep by shoving his tongue down her throat. She said no. Her eyes were closed.
He carries on and puts his hands down her pants.
She says she said no several times but he kept going.

This is where it gets hard for me to know what to call it.
She says he carried on to the point where she became aroused and eventually consented to sex.

In the morning she felt disgusted and betrayed and said she tried to talk to him about it. He denied having done anything wrong, denied kissing her when she was asleep etc.
And says he was a bit drunk.

Now he has admitted he was not drunk. She wanted to get him to realise what he had done. He has now blocked her from social media etc, saying she just causes him stress.

She told me about all of this and views it as sexual assault.
I think what he did was revolting, but the fact she consented to sex, eventually- does that mean it wasn't?

Sorry for possibly jumbly post. Feeling upset for her.

OP posts:
KickthewallonSalthillprom · 19/08/2017 15:37

Oh your poor DD.
I don't think you can give informed consent if you are drunk. Especially if the other person was sober and insistent.
I'm not legally astute though.
What does your DD want to do?

FreedaDonkey · 19/08/2017 15:41

I think he drugged her and then did what he intended to do all along.

Call the police Flowers

Rightwrong · 19/08/2017 15:47

I'm not sure what dd wants to do at this stage. And because she consented to sex- because he kept going until she was aroused enough to say yes- she isn't sure..
I'm getting more and more angry about this though.

OP posts:
Ikabod · 19/08/2017 16:32

I'm impressed that you have such a good relationship with your DD that she felt able to tell you about what happened. I don't think getting someone drunk and then pushing them to a point when they finally relent is "consent". What you do next is entirely down to your DD. Let her take back control of the situation and support her decisions. The guy is an asshole.

thestamp · 19/08/2017 17:10

The human body shows signs of physical arousal whenever it's presented with stimulus that it interprets as sexual. Even if that human doesn't want to participate in the sexual activity it's seeing or experiencing.

This is an important feature of female bodies in particular in order to protect them from damage in the event of a violent rape Sad

I.e. women usually do lubricate during rapes. They have to really. Sad becoming aroused physically is not consent.

She said no, he cajoled her into drinking more and more, then he coerced her until he gained access to her body in the way that he wanted.

Ethically and legal, he raped her. In terms of what the police would say, in practice, well they can be really shit sometimes so who knows.

Your DD may not perceive it as an out and out rape, and that's her right. But it does sound like she knows she was betrayed and treated badly by this bloke. Support her in whatever way works for her.

I'm.sorry this happened. What a vile young man.

Biddylee · 19/08/2017 17:31

This useful link was posted on another thread.

outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion

It's a horrible experience to happen because it's very confusing. I'm sorry this happened to your daughter. As someone else said, let her figure out how she wants to handle it and support her through that.

RandomMess · 19/08/2017 17:41

Flowersfor you and DD, not sure if she feels like she wants to report so he is on the radar for when/if he does this to his next victim...

londonloves · 19/08/2017 17:56

It's really important that you as her mum don't question her perception of it as assault/rape. "Giving in" is not the same as consent anyway. She needs your support, please don't get bogged down in second guessing legal definitions.

rosabug · 19/08/2017 18:26

Great advice here. something similar happened to me when I was 18, however it was the early 80s - I just put it down to experience, however I never forgot it and I knew it was a form of rape. I wasn't hurt, but I felt ashamed that I had 'given in' - which is crap. However I don't think it would have helped me to have labelled it rape and think about it legally.

This would stand in court I'm afraid as you probably realise and it's likely not useful to talk about it in such heavyweight and serious terms. But what about if you support her in confronting him about his (clearly deliberate) behavior? the result that he may (pretends to) dismiss her but it's unlikely he will do it again to anyone else and that is perhaps a positive outcome and could give your daughter a sense of purpose and agency??

Rightwrong · 19/08/2017 19:03

Thanks for all the advice and input- very much appreciated. She would rather he saw what he did for what it really was, than persue anything legally.
Hence why she tried to get him to understand that and accept it.
I will support her in whatever way I can.
She seems to simply want him to acknowledge that he did sexually assault her. I'm not sure whether to speak with him myself or not.
I feel he needs to be made aware that her parents know about it and he needs to wake the fuxk up about what he did.

OP posts:
Namethecat · 19/08/2017 19:12

What happened to your daughter was totally wrong and unacceptable. Being devil's advocate could I bring this to the discussion. Could it be argued that when your daughter realised that he was pushing for her to drink more than she was happy to drink it should have been her alarm bells to leave. She remembers enough to fill you with the details so until the point of her being totally drunk and incapable until then she would have been able to leave. She needs to take the morning after pill asap and give this (ex friend ) a wide berth.

EmeraldIsle100 · 19/08/2017 19:43

It might be an idea to access some support for your DD from a rape crisis organisation. This incident might play on her mind and it would be wise to seek support soon so that she can discuss what happened with a trained counsellor.

PurpleToeNails · 19/08/2017 20:09

I'm sorry to hear what happened to your daughter. Nobody should be treated that way.
Have you or your daughter heard of the tea analogy of consent?
Follow the link on this BBC page www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-34656527
Hope she gets support from Rape Crisis when she's ready.

pinkyredrose · 19/08/2017 23:53

Maybe she only 'consented' because he wasn't stopping. He'd already ignored her 'no's' he knew what he was doing. Coercing someone into sex is rape.

PickAChew · 20/08/2017 00:59

Rape/coercion. Not acceptable, whichever view you take.

Victim blaming not helpful, @Namethecat

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