Ex H with Aspergers??

[MerryRealisation]

I've posted this in SN Chat as well but it's a bit quiet over there...

Hi all
I've been over on the relationship board on and off this year. I've been in a 20 year relationship with my husband but have just called time. I couldn't do it anymore.
What I thought was him being totally selfish, ignorant, socially awkward, lacking empathy, not being able to comfort me when I'm upset, looking like a rabbit in the headlights if I suggest something new (like a different sort of pudding!) and lots of other things I am now thinking are the clear signs of Aspergers.
It will make no difference to me if he has, I'm still very happy with my separation decision. But it will help me to understand and I really need to.
We have two children and we have got to work to sort life out for them.
So, could I be mistaking all of those things for him just being an idiot or am I right. And is there anything else I should look out for?
He does also have issues with alcohol.
Someone please talk to me about this. I'm feeling really confused and I'm not sure why.
Plus, I've think I've posted on the right board but apologies if not.

You've basically just described my relationship with my DP ended a couple of months ago. Literally every character trait, including the alcohol.

I left after 2 years though- well done you for having the patience to last for 20.

We have an almost 1 year old (he was an unexpected surprise ) - so we'll be coparenting... but as with the last year, that means I'll be stage managing/ prompting/cajoling exDP I imagine.

My therapist also thinks exDP is an aspie, going by my description.

I'm not really sure how I managed to not notice! I think I lasted so long as having had a pretty crap relationship with my mother his hands off approach was safe. And then we had kids which has been the last 8 years taken care of.
But now I would really really like a meaningful cuddle!
The problem I'm in at the moment is knowing he needs order and time to adjust to new thoughts but him seeing that as me being cold hearted. Which is so painfully ironic I can't even laugh about it!

You've just described my ex husband. I have Aspergers, he doesn't. Please don't generalise.

He is rude, mean, selfish and extremely arrogant. That's just him.

Plenty of people, judging by MN relationships, are like that. They're just wankers rather than ASD. There would've been plenty of other signs than just selfish/not empathetic. In fact many with ASD are almost too empathetic and can barely deal with their own emotions let alone those of other people.

handhold @merry

It's really bloody difficult isn't it. Especially as I (and perhaps you too) actually have a lot of sympathy for him, and see that he is in so many ways an excellent human being, with many good qualities.

I don't know what the overall scientific consensus is, and whether this is actually possibly offensive to diagnosed people with Aspergers (if so - I'm sorry, this isn't intended to offend) but my DP had a hugely traumatic and abusive infancy, and I've read some scientific papers which suggest a kind of "acquired" aspergers, which develops through early childhood trauma.
It makes me doubly sad for exDP.

That said, we were so hugely different, and some of his personality traits were just not compatible with fatherhood, but of course I only knew that once we had the baby. Examples include:

• extremely useless in a medical emergency and actually left poorly 6 week old DS and i on the children's ward waiting for tests to

Begin, as he had work the next day and "couldn't let them down" so he needed some sleep. (he could have. His employer has a family. Ex didn't understand that that made a difference).

• Couldn't cope with my hormonal shifts in pregnancy and post partum- at all. Made them much worse by telling me

I was "hurting the baby" when I cried (he thought it would calm me down )

• didn't know how to talk to or interact with the baby without specific instruction e.g. Tell him you love him. Give him a cuddle. (That got better the more he saw me do, and he could model his own behaviour)
• he had huge noise sensitivity, and the sound of DS laughing giddily or crying was unbearable in terms of pitch.
• obsessed with his job as an architect to the exclusion of all else at times
• did not see that the dog was less important than the baby, or indeed, any human (eg in a hypothetical situation, which would you save? He couldn't decide between me and baby, and dog.)
• the drinking
• wouldn't "do"- foreign travel, noisy restaurants, children's playgrounds, going on journeys without a specific planned route, unknown foods.... the list was endless.

That makes him sound awful. He isn't- he really really isn't. He's just ... he can't empathise, he can't imagine empathising even. He has very specific ways of living, and tbh, we were just too much of a change for him to cope with.

I comfort myself with the thought that we are ALL happier living apart. And that we've managed to separate and remain good friends with a lot of love.

Acquired Aspergers sounds like rubbish, sorry. It would just give credence to the whole MMR thing again which is totally wrong. Some of those traits you listed do sound Aspie but I don't think you can just acquire it. I certainly didn't have a traumatic childhood... sounds like some sort of personality disorder rather than ASD.

Also just to say, outside of our relationship, ex DP also couldn't understand jokes, vague concepts or generalisations, drawing examples across topics, sarcasm or understand what people's actual expressions meant. He was fixated on a small number of things (architecture,his hobby, and sudoku puzzles) and he found it very difficult to have any interest or enthusiasm in anything else.

Please be assured, I'm not just using ASD as a convenient excuse for a bad relationship- he struggles in many areas of his life with this, and I continue to help him with many things that this impacts on.

His own therapist has also suggested ASD but not sure what the outcome or suggestion of further treatment was (if any).

@toffee1000

I agree- acquired aspergers doesn't sound right to me from other articles etc I've read either- I don't give credence to the MMR link either. But i don't know enough overall on ongoing research to be able to dismiss it out of hand. Good to know what someone who knows more on the topic thinks of it.

(I can't find the paper now- wish i could as might be interesting for others on MN) it was just a hypothesis which fitted exDPs life -but then perhaps he just got a really shitty hand and it was a coincidence- or maybe he had a different thing going on.

Either way, he's a brilliant person, with huge obstacles - and although we didnt work as a couple, I can see he tried his best.

I can understand where you're coming from. I just get a little wary of threads saying someone's ex has ASD. I know that people come into Relationships mostly to complain, but when I've done research elsewhere into relationships between an NT and an ASD person it's not very positive. As you may have guessed, I'm going through the whole gamut of getting a diagnosis for myself. I've not actually been in a relationship so I do worry when I see these things. I suppose it's different because I'm a female and we're better at masking and learning social niceties, and I'd hopefully get a dx before any relationship so my partner would know about it and be able to work with it.
It's also important to remember that everyone with ASD is different.

Chuckle - sorry, I'm not trying to generalise and upset anybody. I just still confused really. I really do think his issues are deeper than him just being a twat.

Toffee- they are my main ones. He struggles hugely with his own emotions. He can't deal with them. That's why he drinks I feel.

Queen - everything you have said is exactly and completely the same. Except, we don't have any good bits. People say to be fairly often how lucky I am but I'm really not. I really struggle to find positives and I've been searching for a good while now.
If he were a good person in some areas I would probably still be with him.

Toffee I thought long and hard before posting. I'm not trying to find excuses for him but truly think that there is something underlying.
Good luck with your diagnosis. I think the very fact you acknowledge it is massive and puts you in the right place to have a great relationship.

" totally selfish, ignorant, socially awkward, lacking empathy, not being able to comfort me when I'm upset, looking like a rabbit in the headlights if I suggest something new"

Of all of these suggested traits, the only one that might be generally true for people with ASD is the feear of the unknown (new) and the ability this has to throw the whole system out, although I know some people can be socially awkward. My ASD friends are the opposite of selfish, they are empathetic, although sometimes find it difficult to demonstrate this in 'normal' ways.

I think all of those things you listed just underline that he's not a nice person, but not that he necessarily has ASD.

I'm not saying don't post! I know these relationships don't work out for everyone and if you're better off out of it then you're better off.

@merry for you. I understand that you feel like you need some explanation- I felt like that for a long time too. I needed to know why this person that I loved so much, was... On such a different page to me. In a different book! How could he think a dog was as important as the baby? Or think that I was "fine" alone and terrified with our sick son because "there's a nurse outside?"

Especially when we'd have these awful arguments because he just couldn't process how I or any other human might feel, if it wasn't exactly as he felt. There's nothing more frustrating... it's like speaking two different languages with no translate tool. I used to try and try and try different ways to get through to him- but he just absolutely could not grasp whatever I was getting at. I used to feel like I was going mad sometimes. It was hard for him too. He used to literally beat his head off the wall in frustration when I talked about my feelings. It was too much for him.

It's impossible for anyone to diagnose your ex here- but I do get why you want a dx- because it will make his behaviour seem more "understandable"- even forgivable. Because it's not his fault is he has ASD. I'm
Sorry you can't point to any good bits of his character - that must be painful after so many years- but take it from one who's been there- I understand all of what you're saying, and I'm sure you've been through a lot, ASD or no ASD.

Maybe you could book some time with a therapist yourself? It might help you come to terms and you could talk through your own feelings? If you're in London, I can recommend someone excellent?

@toffee

I hope none of that is upsetting for you to read. I wanted to say to you that had we not had a baby, I do think our relationship would have lasted, because we would have been able to handle our differences of opinion and cognition and the resulting arguments wouldn't have affected anyone but us. There's still a lot of
Love there. We just couldn't expose DS to the friction any longer.

I wanted to say, My exDP is also-

• hugely interesting on the topics he loves
• can make and create beautiful things- and does so frequently, to make me and my son happy- even now we're separated. It's his way of showing his love.
• he did love us, in his own way- his way of showing it was to "take care" of us domestically- he struggled with the communication and emotional care side of our relationship more
• very chivalrous, very gentlemanly, and very old fashioned in his manners. It's gorgeous.
• will help anyone, either anything, if it can be fixed, or built. Old ladies love him.
• great with animals
• very appreciative of beauty around him- and good at pointing it out
• excellent taste, and very honest with his opinions
• works like a Trojan to provide for us- even post separation.

It's not all doom in these relationships, IME.
And thank you for sharing your story.

I know it's not all doom, I guess I just tend to focus on the negatives! I suppose if you just don't work out you just don't work out, even if there are lovely things. I also tend to think that people can be a bit too quick to throw out "ASD" when there's anything unusual about someone, we live in a society where we feel a need to have a named explanation/label for everything. We see it on Relationships all the time; why is my DH like xyz, why do narcissists act the way they do etc.

@toffee1000

Absolutely. On all counts.

I don't doubt poor old exDP sits there wondering why the fuck I used to cry about XYZ, why was I so sarcastic all the time, what did I mean when I made that joke about 123.

It's funny - because I totally get that he is in exactly the same position of non- comprehension as me... but sadly as a man (and a relative Luddite- refuses all tech except for work) he doesn't get the benefit of MN support. And actually wouldn't want it anyway! 😉

My DH has Asperger's. He's the kindest, most generous, loving, caring person I've ever met. Yours just sounds like an arse.

Very few of us aspies are selfish, ignorant and completely lacking in empathy. However like with NT people you get some autistic people who are fuckwits and some who are lovely.

You also get lots of non autistic people who are socially awkward and/or resistant to change.

You can't diagnose from a random list of traits that may or may not apply.

Inherited autism is utter bollocks. You don't acquire it, you have it from birth.

I suspect my ex had ASD plus an abusive childhood.I have seen a PhD who specialises in ASD and her thoughts are any childhood abuse can make ASD relationships much more difficult so nurture and nature plus personality are factors.

She has also said attachment disorders can model ASD so a detailed assessment is needed to determine which is primary cause.
I suspect ASD is however very under reported.Ex's daughter from first marriage was just diagnosed as she masked symptoms until she went to Uni where it became more apparent.She is open to a diagnosis as thankfully there is no stigma attached however Ex very much felt it was a negative label.He has many older family members who are were always referred to as eccentric due to obsessions.

You are right, Hermione, ASD is very very under reported, and adults are encouraged by their GPs NOT to pursue a diagnosis. Teachers I know who see Aspergers in kids don't flag it up just laugh about it with their friends fgs. It seems a huge, secret taboo. I don't understand why professionals deliberately deny obvious cases, where people are asking for help. There can be co-morbidity with ASD in terms of personality disorders, which affect people with autism as well as neurotypicals.

They're just wankers rather than ASD.

Autistic spectrum conditions don't really present as wankerishness. It's a bit concerning that people are connecting the two ideas.

There's nothing to stop an utter wanker from HAVING a spectrum condition, of course. Wankers can have anything that any of us have.

There probably IS an issue that SOME aspies who have struggled undiagnosed for decades, not benefiting from adjustments or appropriate education, may have been bullied or abused by people reacting to their difficulties and damaged by their experiences of life unsupported and that, in turn, MAY have caused emotional damage to SOME of them.

But it's probably not fruitful to unpick those things on a nasty thread like this.