Relationship with DM, any insights, straight talking.

[SocksBoatsAndQats]

So massive back story to my relationship with DM, she was physically abusive to me as a child and emotionally unavailable (she had a crap childhood).

I know I'm never going to have a good relationship with her, but I feel like I'm at a place where I have a kind of peace about things and things were better when I moved out for uni.

I have children now, and wanted them to know her, which has been OK, she does love them. However recently our relationship has soured, I don't know what sparked this change. She has said nasty things about my dh and to me, didn't send the kids birthday cards etc and before my last visit didn't come and see us for eighteen months (despite invites). We do live a fair few hours away, so it was hard for both of us to get to each other.

So we went to visit recently, and it was just such an odd visit. When we arrived, she was upstairs and didn't come down and see us for a good ten minutes. She didn't really engage with the kids unless they engaged with her. Didn't really talk to us, and sort of carried on with her normal routine as though we weren't even there. It didn't feel as though she was being malicious, just that we were there and she worked round us.

Gosh, this actually sounds awful written down doesn't it.

What do I do with this? Do I do anything? I've gone low contact for my own self preservation, and am polite/cordial to her. I just really don't think she's bothered about us all. She has a new Grandchild and seems to be putting a lot of her energy into them. I don't really resent this, she's allowed to do stuff with this child that I didn't let her do with mine (mainly as they were attached to my boobs).

Sorry for the ramble, if you've got this far, thank you.

My dad always used to say you can chose your friends but not your family.

If you're able to cope with not having her in your life cut her out. She's not giving you what you need (in fact it's not even decent politeness).

Atlia is very good for this type of advice op - but maybe keep it to Christmas cards and phonecalls.

Just stop inviting her or putting any effort into meeting up.

You may feel you've accepted things in relation to how she patented you but you now have to accept things in relation to how she grandparents your dc.

It seems her grandparent style is one where she invests more where she has more control. You are lucky in a way that your dc are not being favoured at the moment.

Let the contact fall by the wayside and teach your children skills for dealing with toxic people.

She sounds very toxic. Has she ever acknowledged and apologised for the abuse?
I think you must concentrate on self preservation and go lc x

It is not your fault that your mother (she is really not worthy of being called that) is like this, you did not make her that way. The abuse you suffered as a child was not your fault either; it was and remains hers.

You do not mention your dad; is he still around at all?.

You also had an abusive childhood but you have not done the behaviours she has to your own children. Your mother never sought the necessary help but simply blamed you instead for all her inherent ills and repeated what was done to her with you.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; what was and is your role here? If you have siblings are they treated differently, what is their relationship like?

Yes it is dysfunctional and not just awful when written down. You are very much the now adult child of a toxic parent struggling with your own fear, obligation and guilt. Like many such people struggling with their FOG you are still seeking her approval from someone abusive, that is something she will never give you.

It is not your fault your mother is like this; you did not make her this way. Your own lack of boundaries here when it comes to your mother has not helped either; she also caused that to happen to you.

She was not a good parent to you when growing up so what made you think that she was going to behave any better around your children?. Toxic people like your mother more often than not make out for being crap and toxic as a grandparent figure as well. She has also not changed since your own childhood. She has never apologised nor has accepted any real responsibility for her actions.

Your mistake here was to allow your children to have any sort of relationship with their grandmother (who has now turned her attentions to another child).

I would further now lower all contact levels to a point where zero contact happens. You owe this woman precisely nothing. She is not at all interested in your children and has used them as mere accessories. She does not know the meaning of the word love and you were not loved by her.

What does your DH think about your mother?.

Do read the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages and read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. The organisation NAPAC are also well worth contacting. I would seriously consider speaking to them about your childhood abuse if you have not already done so.

Mess Oh lord no, in her mind she was 'disciplining us' and was right to do so as she was the parent. Mum's are always right in her mind.

As a result, if I think I'm even slightly in the wrong with my dc I apologise. I tell them I'm sorry all the time, I figure if I'm not able to say it why should they.

Are you sure she's spending time with other grandchild? Just wondering if she could be depressed and not good at articulating what's going on, even to herself. It would probably be difficult, but is it worth trying to talk to her alone some time, to see if theres anything specific that has changed her behaviour, before you write her off?

As a child, she made me into the parental role. Even as an adult, she wanted me to sort stuff out for her, mediate between my siblings etc. I used to parent my you gest brother, I'd babysit etc. I filled in benefit forms for her, rang electricity companies, wrote complaint letters all before the age of fourteen.

Tennis yes I'm sure, she goes over and spends nights there and she's had them for overnights at hers. Child is only a baby so basically a little smiley thing that gurgles at us all.

"As a child, she made me into the parental role. Even as an adult, she wanted me to sort stuff out for her, mediate between my siblings etc. I used to parent my you gest brother, I'd babysit etc. I filled in benefit forms for her, rang electricity companies, wrote complaint letters all before the age of fourteen".

Bloody hell. You became the parentified child and you were robbed of your childhood by her.

Your mother, upon having a child may unconsciously feel that finally she has someone to love her unconditionally and begins to use the child to fill her needs that were not met in her own childhood. In this way, the child begins to carry the projection of her mother's mother. This puts the daughter in an impossible situation to be responsible for her mother's well-being and happiness.

I would read "The drama of the gifted child" by Alice Miller. This will further explain the dynamics.

Atilla I read something on another thread that really resonated with me, I read that no one deep down can really believe that their Mum doesn't have their best interests and by extention their grandchildren at heart. I suppose thats the crux of it, you always think that deep down.

As for dh, he probably thinks the above, he agrees she's had a hard life and that she was abusive. I'm not quite sure he 'gets it', I've spoken briefly about some of the issues with some in RL. When the mention of not visiting comes up, I get a lot of 'its your Mum', these people by and large have great relationships with their parents. My MIL told me to give it one last shot for my own peace of mind and then ride off into the sunset flicking the 'v' s' at her (exact words).

Hi socks

Re your comment:-
Atilla I read something on another thread that really resonated with me, I read that no one deep down can really believe that their Mum doesn't have their best interests and by extention their grandchildren at heart. I suppose thats the crux of it, you always think that deep down.

Some people do believe that all families are "lovely" and that people couldn't act like this; its just completely incomprehensible to them. Those people are usually themselves from emotionally healthy non abusive families though some people from those types of healthy families really do have more insight and empathy.

This from Darlene Ouimet resonated with me:-
"Most of the time people don’t even care to hear the reasons adult children have for not seeing their parents; they just tell these adult children they are wrong. They automatically defend the parents without even hearing or caring about the reason behind the broken relationship. That is offensive.

It is even more offensive when the reasons for not seeing parents ARE revealed and people still judge the adult child to be the one in the wrong. That is what this “what if your parents die” question is about. It is about parental rights and entitlement ~ something that YOU as their child don’t have in a dysfunctional family system. People are so afraid that if they ‘hear you’ and validate your reasons for not having relationship with your parents, or for going no contact, that they might have to think about the dysfunctional relationships they have with their parents or even worse, with their grown kids. So often parents equate regarding their children as equally valuable with giving up their power and control over them. (and If giving up their power and control in favor of embracing equal value is something that they are not willing to consider doing, they insist on going down rabbit holes and changing the subject, always turning it back on the child, rather than giving their child a chance to be heard)."

When it comes to families of origin that are inherently unhealthy like the one you yourself grew up in the family rule book goes out the window. What happened to you was utterly appalling in childhood, her actions robbed you of your childhood really and you did become the parentified child. That has also left its marks here.

Re your comment:-
"As for dh, he probably thinks the above, he agrees she's had a hard life and that she was abusive. I'm not quite sure he 'gets it', I've spoken briefly about some of the issues with some in RL".

I would argue your mother is still abusive. She has also never apologised nor has accepted any responsibility for her actions. Many people have also had hard lives but did not go onto physically or mentally abuse their children when they became parents themselves. Your mother basically repeated what was done to her by her own abusive parents. She never sought or wanted to seek the necessary help for her own childhood but took it all out on you instead.

Some people who do come from emotionally healthy families cannot readily comprehend that a parent would act like this towards their child or now adult child. Do continue to seek out people in real life who can help you further with all this (not necessarily family members either). Your point of view is valid and you have a right to be heard and acknowledged.

"When the mention of not visiting comes up, I get a lot of 'its your Mum', these people by and large have great relationships with their parents"

I have read of that happening an awful lot, it is disempowering.

"My MIL told me to give it one last shot for my own peace of mind and then ride off into the sunset flicking the 'v' s' at her (exact words)".

The last part I would agree with but you really do not need to give it one last shot for your own peace of mind. You really do owe your mother nothing.

I've been ruminating on this today, no I agree with you, I don't owe her anything and she's still being abusive. Who ignores their own child when they walk into the house after not seeing them for eighteen months.

I walked into my house after going swimming for an hour today, and my children all bundled me at the front door. Same with my MIL, she would come down and greet us all and then apologise if she needed to get back to something quickly.

My Mum got very nasty with me lately, its the reason why I stopped ringing her and getting in touch with her. She was nasty about my husband and what we've done in terms of raising our children. She was very spiteful, and I just thought, 'I've had enough of this.'

I actually didn't want to go see my Mum, I shouldn't have bothered, but everyone kept talking about 'it's your Mum' etc. Only one person I spoke to properly understood.

I actually started getting flashbacks in the week before we went, I was in the swimming pool, just swimming along and I was right back in my childhood.

I did actually ask for help as a teen, I was thinking about it today and I reached out about three times all in all (I didn't get any help and was told 'oh it's your Mum' at the time).

I had similar. I asked for help too and was told 'oh you're a teenager, all teenagers hate their parents' one time the person I told even talked to my parents about what I'd disclosed (but not to anyone who could help) which made everything worse.

I'm 33 now. In the last year I've found much greater peace. I've got much greater distance emotionally, though am not quite there. I have still been drawn in, usually to protect other relatives from them.

Over the years I've cycled back and forth between periods of no contact, being drawn in, low contact... at the moment my mum sees the kids on a Thursday afternoon, that's all and it is too much for me and is getting too much for the kids, only 1/4 is interested now.

I'm currently trying to integrate the idea that they are not my parents, because they don't behave in a way that any even halfway decent parent should.

I need to know that deep in my heart I think to really move on.

My mum's the opposite of ignoring BTW so it has made it hard to see. She's incredibly overbearing and interfering and neurotic.

The last nail in the coffin was a few years ago when I told them I was leaving my husband and they made it into a huge big drama, all about them and how awful I was to be leaving my (EA) husband. I shouted at my dad to 'get the fuck out of my house' and swore to myself never to forget.