Relate counselling with emotional abuser/narcissist

[newbroom]

Not sure what to do - have recently realised after years of unhappiness that DH is controlling and emotionally abusive, and matches everything I've read about covert narcissists. I am seeing a counsellor individually and making plans to leave. He doesn't know this yet but last night told me he has been to a counselling session with Relate as he's worried about how things are between us. He wants me to go too, first on my own and then as a couple.

I don't know what to do - he is extremely subtle in the way he has been controlling me which is why it's taken so long for me to realise, he's also very charming, lovely and persuasive so family and friends are shocked and had no idea. I'm worried if I go to counselling he will twist everything, confuse me and I will end up agreeing to stay. Also if I refuse couples counselling will it look bad for me if/when we go to court etc?

I absolutely know I want to leave, he has no insight at all into his behaviour and has no idea why we're having problems. I have emailed my own counsellor for advice but unlikely to get an answer until Monday and he is pressing me for a decision. I have solicitors appt next week so can't do anything practical about leaving until then.

Sorry for long ramble but I really have no idea what would be for the best.

Couples counselling is never recommended at all when there is abuse within the relationship.

No counsellor worth their salt would ever see the two of you together in the same room. His idea is basically to get you into joint counselling and further manipulate the counsellor into seeing his point of view. He has managed to manipulate you thoroughly and fool many people over the years into thinking he is something he is not; charming men indeed make for being dangerous lovers. You know differently now and I would hasten your plans into leaving him altogether asap.

Womens Aid are also worth contacting here if you have not already done so.

Thank you, this is exactly what I'm afraid of, that he'll persuade me to give it another go. My family keep suggesting Relate but they don't see what's really happening, he's taken everyone in . I've agreed to an individual session to buy me some time but as you say there's no way I'm going to a joint session. I'm hoping by the time I've arranged a Relate session I'll be in a position to leave (sorting out finances etc now). Thanks for your advice x

No no no no no don't do it. I did it and he manipulated the counsellor and made me look crazy (I was frustrated as he was totally dishonest and only seemed concerned with making himself look good to the joint counsellor. Still makes my blood boil to think about it. Keep the individual counselling going, you'll need to gather all your strength

Ha, my probably-NPD XH suggested joint counselling after I had decided to leave, too. I said ok, as long as it's just to help us separate amicably.

If I'd been stronger, I might have said no. If saying no is difficult, that might be an alternative approach?

One tip that really helped me was to be bland and boring in everything you say to him. And try not to listen to him. You are right to worry. My H talked me into trying again once.

DO NOT GO TO JOINT COUNCELLING! He will use anything you say against you.

For years, I didn't recognise what was going on and lo and behold...

Make contact with Womens' Aid absolutely and report his behaviour to the police. It is really important to let people who can help know your situation.

I tried joint counselling with my stbxp and I left with the words of the counsellor ringing in my head - "it takes two people to create a nice environment, and two people to cause difficulties". I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. My OH had just admitted to her years of abuse. He told her 'his' side and dredged up much of his history - none of it really relevant. He talked about his mother leaving their home and leaving him with their father, but she still was in his life, yet when I spoke of my absent father it was minimised. He spoke of his cheating ex who he had a child with, but my cheating ex wasn't valid because we didn't have children and I was only young. I then told her the one thing about my life that was different to his - my mother was badly abused by my father, and the man she met after my father too, and the counsellor said I'd benefit from mother/daughter counselling as my issue really lies with her, children of abused people tend to seek out the same types of relationship.
I was totally gobsmacked. I was even convinced he must have been having an affair with this counsellor for her to only see his side. Ultimately we left there with him being even more of a smug prick and he reminds me still that I 'blow things out of proportion'
Just leave. Please. You are better off out of it x

I was with a narc. He was a hollow shell of a being. They have no sense of consequence and no empathy. None. They have no insight into themselves at all. Everything is someone else's fault. Don't bother trying to engage him in his problems.

My ex was caught and caught and caught in his lies. He agreed to go to therapy for his "social fabrication" issues.

I saw the same therapist for a while because I needed coping strategies for dealing with him (I had already left with my 1 year old dd) and the therapist told me to run and don't look back.

Yes to counselling on your own, it will help you work things out but a big no to counselling with him.

Leave. Split. Run.

Don't go to joint counselling, continue on your own counselling journey.

I went to joint counselling with ex-H (also covert I believe) the very good counsellor soon suggested individual counselling instead with a view to recommencing joint counselling at a future date.

Following my counselling, I decided to leave the marriage. By chance I later saw an email in which the joint counsellor had made contact with ex-H asking how things were. His reply to her was a diatribe all about how I was leaving and it was clearly all her fault. It was an awful email, but it opened my eyes even wider.

I'd procrastinate, avoid and lie so you don't go with him - assuming you can't speed up the leaving plan.

I went to Relate and persuaded stbxh to do joint sessions to. Biggest mistake ever. He smarmed his way round her and it was a very effective new way to abuse me. The counsellor was rubbish and went all giggly and flattered in his presence.

She told me I was being selfish about sex and was withholding sex as a power thing. I should enjoy it for his sake and if I rejected any sex then I was rejecting the whole of our marriage.

It took me years of mumsnet before I realised that it's ok not to want sex when you're being repeatedly raped and left bleeding and sobbing each time.

That's how much couples counselling can screw with your head, im quite bright usually (!). But stayed with him and sacrificed everything for him, to try and keep him happy. And he got free rein to carry on the shocking levels of financial, social, emotional and physical abuse, and of course the sexual abuse. It was only when I could see DS was being damaged that I found my courage and got us out of that terrible situation. Had no idea it was as bad as it really was at the time, as I thought I deserved it all and it was all my fault. I even thought I had the anger problem, not him, and spent my life apologizing and trying to be better... obviously my anger problem was the reason we had fights, ahich were the reason he'd get angry which was the reason he 'lost it' and abused me. Yup clearly my fault. Err, not that I was crying out trying to live with the intolerable strain of being abused, and that it's ok to be unhappy and not coping in a situation that no one would be able to cope in. The trick is to change the situation though, by walking away from the person causing the hell, rather than living in endless hell trying to make it ok by making him ok.

Breaking away is tough, but it will be the best thing you ever do. And also, breaking away is nothing compared with living with it, really!

Maybe if you went into it with your eyes open and there was a massive advantage to you to go through a single session.... but no, I can't even say that, being in an abusive relationship messes with your mind so much I think you're terribly vulnerable and shouldn't risk it. It's handing him a whole new way to control you, to hurt you, and cut off your escape routes by making the outside world believe you're the bad guy/ the loony / shouldn't be believed. And quite frankly, he's got enough ways to do that already!

Good luck, and keep your eyes on the prize (as it were!). You, without him. Healing and learning how to live again.

It's a good world out there if you can avoid the sharks, and you deserve to be able to experience that beauty and joy of just being alive... Kinda hard to do that from inside a prison isn't it?

Thanks so much everyone, your words of advice are really inspiring. This confirms my gut reaction that I don't want to engage in counselling as he's already characterising it as "let's go to counselling to sort out your issues" and "you need to open up to me so I can help you" . It's like he's living in a parallel universe .. I am trying to stall for long enough so that I can get out (shouldn't be long now, solicitors appt this week). Thanks for your help x

he is pressing me for a decision

There it is, right there - him pushing you into something you don't want to do.

Great decision though to agree just to go on your own and use it as a delaying tactic. Keep firm on this point - even when he presses you again and again.

Also meant to say how shocking it is that people have had some awful experiences with couples counselling, there must be some really incompetent counsellors out there! Also goes to show how convincing and manipulative some of these abusers are

Everyone has already highlighted the risks and you are aware of them anyway. Please be wary with your family. I lost mine when they supported abusive ex 'he's lovely - you are the problem'. He is seeking counselling because he senses movement and that he is losing his grip. It might be best to take the path of least resistance while you are getting your ducks in a row. Agree to the counselling, book an individual appointment for as far away as possible. Say you need time to think. Just avoid for as long as you can until you have a plan of action. You do not have to try and resolve things. It will not reflect badly on you. Anyone who thinks it does, does not have your best interests at heart.

Terrible experiences of couple counselling here too! My ex managed to extract 'you are both abusive to each other' from the fool that we saw. When I said I wouldn't be going to any more sessions it was 'someone has seen you for the abuser that you are and you are running away because she stood up to you'. Don't go with him!

Please, No!

Seek counselling for yourself. Preferable through an organisation that can support you.

My ex husband wanted us to go for counselling. This is the same man who would get me to apologise for him having to hit me.

No matter what he did it was somehow turned so I had to take the blame. I don't think it was a premeditated thing, it was just how he was. He thought he was perfect and therefore others were always wrong.

You will do great damage to your mental health if you do couples counselling. You need to explore in your own time, what's going on in your relationship.

It will give you confidence to make healthier choices. My experience was I was totally brainwashed in his belief he was always right. It took a long time to see the light.