Right, so I just found of my parents were committed swingers and I'm not too sure what to do with this knowledge...

[addittothelist]

I should preface this thread by saying that I am in therapy at the moment due to childhood abuse that occurred whilst my parents were being neglectful of me.

I grew up in a very normal-looking (priveleged, really) middle class home. But my parents were completely emotionally absent and didn't meet any of my emotional needs and also failed to keep me safe at home.

I've done some digging because I've long since suspected there was some strange stuff going on at home. My parents had lots of couple friends who also had children and I have memories of parties with loads and loads of drink, kids shoved away upstairs without any supervision, ever.

Coming to find parents and finding e.g. my mother sitting on someone other than my Dad's knee..or someone other than my mother sitting on my Mum's knee.

Walking in on slow dancing etc etc.

I'm really torn about how I feel about this...on one hand what consenting adults choose to do in private is their business.

But on the other hand, how on earth was this in private when us kids were walking in on it?

I've always had my suspicions and I was talking to one of the other kids from that time who just suddenly asked me if I thought they were swingers. I agreed the thought had crossed my mind several times. She asked her Mum who confirmed it.

It went on from when we were teeny tiny babies (and my Mum and her Dad went on holiday leaving us kids alone with my Dad and her Mum - wtf????) until we were teens.

Her Mum lives abroad now so doesn't see my parents much but thinks they are still at it now in their 60s.

Just. Well. I don't know what to do with this.

It's hard to separate it from my anger over their neglect, as now I know what was distracting them from their parental duties.

I'm currently nc and I'm not sure I can ever see that changing now..

Shut = shit

Thank you shiver.

It's very difficult. I have memories of my Dad being a bit creepy around me when I was younger and I wonder now what I've forgotten. He was the instigator of all of this stuff, apparently, and I've always felt uncomfortable around him.

I just can't see that there's a way back from this.

I think I understand why this has thrown you a bit. I would be wondering what my brother had seen (are you nc with him?) and how this had affected him, as a child, and contributed to his abuse of you. In my mind it could shift the blame from the brother to the parents more than I had previously understood.
You sound very brave to be addressing this and I wish you the very best OP.

To confirm what someone said upthread, when people expose children to inappropriate sexual stuffso not just showing them porn, but when they behave in sexually inappropriate ways around them, or talk to children about their sex lives, and so onthen yes, it is sexual abuse.

If your parents had been swingers but had kept their behaviours private and had ensured you were properly looked after and kept safe then this would not have been your business. But as they quite clearly failed to look after you in appropriate ways, they have made it your business.

You deserved so much better than this. Their behaviour was disgraceful.

Parents who neglect children have justification for neglect you kids were upstairs you kids had nice things you kidsnever went hungry your parents probably thought they were free thinki ng and a bit bohemian what they did to you isn't ok.

And yes exposing you to their "lifestyle" is sexual abuse

I'd go one step further than MeganBacon : I wonder whether your brother may have been abused before he abused you.

Hi all,

Yes I'm nc with my brother. Yes I suspect he was abused - I asked him that when I confronted him about his abuse of me.
He denied he had been abused but reacted so strongly to the question that it really seemed to have hit a nerve.

My parents have pots of cash and are very much of the "have some money and shut up about the neglect" school of thought.

They're making nice at the moment trying to get access to my daughter's (no fucking chance).

How can they come back from this? They've proved they aren't safe and they're still denying everything.

I think I'm getting a better handle on where to put this bit...

My main childhood issues were: physical neglect (not in terms of material things but in terms of being kept safe from other people.)

Emotional neglect (us kids had no needs in their eyes, there was never any tending to our emotional needs)

Abuse (physical and sexual from my brother)

And I guess this swinging stuff just weaves through all of it. Not that they were swingers but that they did it in our home while we were exposed to it.

Hi OP, my experience is very similar to yours.

I was abused by an adult who was part of the swingers/nudist circuit my parents used. My brother and I pieced together the fragments of our memories and there is no doubt what was going on. My brother struggles much more with the past than I do. My mum has since committed suicude and my dad remarried and playing Disney dad with his new family.

For me I refuse to keep his secret or pretend the holier than though image he presents now is true. I have in the past told him either he tells his new wife or I do as it indicates his poor judgement as a parent. I tell him I don't hold him responsible for my actions but that the abuse would not have happened without the situation or their naïveté.

He is choosing to be mainly NC at the moment and I am fine with that.

I am settled and happy and don't have it as a constant in my life anymore but that has taken time and honesty with all parties. I know I will never receive an apology or acknowledgment of responsibility and I'm fine with that. I've said my piece and am at peace. Xx

OP I think it's very relevant. It's obvious that, like PPs have said, it's the indiscretion of their swinging lifestyle that put you at risk and gave your brother a warped view of sex and its boundaries which no doubt contributed to his abuse of you.

Stay well clear of all of them and be kind to yourself because you're doing amazingly well so far.

Hi clueless - wow, than you for your post, I'm sorry you went through that but I can totally relate.

For me. If, say, they had been getting babysitters and going to some kind of club that would have been one thing.

But they weren't, they were bringing people home and taking us on holidays with other couples. The main focus of the holidays was clearly sex - we'd all be dumped unsupervised somewhere.

The bizarro childcare swapping must have been so confusing for us as well :(

I totally relate to what you say about your Dad pretending. Mine are the same. Pillars of the community and they generally look down as DH and I and criticise.

I'm glad you got through it. If anything I feel weirdly more settled with this knowledge than without it, because they've been insisting they weren't neglectful parents. Well they were.

I personally caught them out with two different couples. God knows what my older brother saw.

Thanks ifyousee,

I think it's relevant too. From what I can tell my Dad spent my childhood looking for other women to sleep with in our family home.

What kind of father thinks like that and makes it their priority?

Hi Op, really sorry to h

Yes addit, I'm a woman of the world. Seen and done a few things and if their lifestyle was one I had accidentally found out about rather than a lifestyle they bestowed upon us I would have no issue. I think my father feels like a very different person now and doesn't relate to that man who made such poor decisions.

You cannot make someone accept or apologise and your happiness cannot be dependent on that. For me, I had to say the words "I don't care if you don't feel responsible, I hold you responsible" these were said with no anger. No answer required, we both know where we stand.

Yes I feel angry for the childhood I was given and the other things you mention, particularly physical neglect were more difficult. Too much alcohol and selfishness.

I have to make sure it isn't repeated in my children's lives. That they know I thought of them about every decision I made. That I have their back.

Sounds like you are on the right path, next step is up to you x

Thanks clueless.

My therapist has been working on getting me to that point of telling them that I hold the more responsible etc, I've largely done that but now it seems there's more.

I think my therapist thought they might apologise and show some accountability, I knew they wouldn't.

Alcohol is a major factor as well, my Dad is an alcoholic and we grew up around that - all dressed up as sociability and having 'parties' etc.

I've bee worried my parents would go through the courts to get access to my children. I don't think they'd want this brought up. I'm wondering if I should tell them I know about it as a pre emotive strike so they don't even attempt it.

I'm going to have to explain all this to my own DC one day. They haven't seen my parents since Christmas and ask about ten occasionally.

I'm doing good, really, it's just about living an honest life, isn't it? I don't have anything on my conscience and I've worked hard to deal with the baggage that others gave me.

I get angry sometimes and wish I could sue them for neglect just to make the point!! But mostly I'm alright x

OP you were badly let down by the people who should have protected you.

You sound amazingly strong and clearly a thoughtful and competent Mum. Your children will eventually stop asking and should your parents hint that they are seeking court action, then maybe a quiet pre-emotive strike is needed.

Is your DP supportive? How much does he know?

I think I'd need a full NC tbh. You are utterly, utterly justified.

Sounds like you are doing more than good.

I would not tell them that you would use the sex information against them. Purely as it may make them more likely to challenge you. To prove themselves in a court to show you are a liar. If they are like my father then he almost believed what he is saying is true.

You don't need to go into details with your children, I say to mine (age 6-20) that there was too much booze, not enough family time and a lot of mistakes made. I would never leave them in his care so they don't need anymore information. His wife needed it as she had a child with the fool.

My mum was an alcoholic and more sexually depraved stories came out as I got older that she had at least tried to keep private. I truly think the alcohol addled her brain and age had a form of dementia at the end. I probably cope as well as I do because growing up I harboured most anger towards her and when she died the anger went with her.

If you want to chat privately feel free to pm xx

Thank you welshmoth, all I can say is that I have a great therapist, truly one in a million and I'd have drowned long ago attempting to deal with this on my own without him. So I am very, very lucky.

My DH is wonderful and so supportive. His parents are wonderful grandparents so my DC at least have one sane set..

Cheese - thank you so much. I may well PM you sometime soon if that's ok. I have therapy tomorrow morning which will give me a chance to categorise it all a bit more.

It's great (in an ironic way) to have someone who understands this stuff, even though i wish you didn't. My DC are 7 and 9 so I'll think on about what I say. But what you said pretty much summarised mine.

My anger has been largely directed at my narc Mum until now but I think my deviant father has a lot to answer for.. xx

I should say, from what I've been told my Dad was the ringleader in all of the swinging and spent time convincing other couples to go along with it. Also cheated on my mum relentlessly.

Totally dick led.

Not a family man.

Been thinking about this all day and it's only one half of what was going on at home. I think I need to look at the alcohol use as well.

Yeah I see these kind of responses to this stuff all the time across the internet and it occurs to me that the people that try to separate the swinging and orgy going out basically they try to separate the sexual side out from their general performances parents is frankly bullshit The people that are doing that are obviously for some reason either just defending the swinging or they are active swingers and every time they read one of these posts they feel the need to defend it because well they're most likely guilty of the same shit.

I mean it occurs to me that if you're going to have a orgy time especially over the weekend well you're probably not interested in spending time with your child and then of course it is a bit fucked up to have your parents go to someone else's house you're tagging along because they have nowhere else to put you those people happen to have children so the idea is is they shove them in the basement or like Opie said they were upstairs with absolutely zero supervision honestly I can remember that happening when I was a kid although I don't necessarily think that my parents were upstairs indulging in a big orgy but then again I also don't know.

The only thing I can say is back in the '80s and early '90s to me this was common that a lot of the times when the parents wanted to get together with their work friends or whatever especially if the work friends had kids that were pretty much your age then ever the whole family would go over and spend the night and it's doubtful that anything really happened most of the time now there were those like OP where it was obviously going on considering they walked into a few things.

The thing that I don't particularly care for via the parents that's going to have the girlfriend or other boyfriend join them or swinging in general is simply a lot of people comp the attitude that we're adults we could do whatever the hell we want and it's none of your business.

Well to that I say no no you are making it their business the minute you bring it into the home with the child present so even though you're not having full-blown sex in front of them you're in your room probably with the door locked big deal they can still hear what's going on you have still introduced it to their area and like it or not your house is their area until they are legal age.

So yeah you have a right to do whatever in your house that I basically myself think that that ought to be done when the kids are not otherwise take your ass to a hotel.

So I mean you know Jimmy is what 13 or he's 16 yeah he's capable of steak home by himself for the night on the other hand if you live in a crime ridden area then you're an asshole for even considering leaving them there unless of course perhaps they're 15 or 16 and they know how to operate a gun safely for self-defense.

I mean I understand that adults want to go do things there's nothing really wrong with that but I'm saying that a lot of these swinger types they bitch piss and moan that their kids are constantly judging them they bitch piss and moaned that the kids feel neglected because of that lifestyle which you know look if you're spending a lot of time with the girlfriend yeah the kids are going to feel like a third wheel and they should never have to feel like a third wheel if that's the case you might as well just put them up for adoption or ask the grandparents to take them so I understand that they want their alone perfect time but it shouldn't be at the expense of the kids' head The kids should not hear it you shouldn't sneak them in you shouldn't do any of that shit if you do it you do it that's fine some people think that because they told the kid up front about it then it's perfectly okay and has no effect on them well it does especially when they're a teenager that can't get any themselves and then hear you are fucking around with some person potentially within their age group of about 5 years I mean how would you like to be 15 years old and your parents are stripping a 20-year-old I mean that's not cool so even though you never hear it you know about it they've brought it into your life.
I don't think you can really defend that!