Expat, child abduction, potential divorce - a bundle of laughs!

[Rattyandmole]

Hi all, I'm in a fairly mad situation and would appreciate any advice/experience from fellow mumsnetters.
Briefly (I'll try!), my husband (EU citizen applying for Brit citizenship) and myself (non-EU citizen applying for Brit citizenship) have lived in the UK for a number of years but have been talking about going to live in an EU country. He keeps shifting the goalposts on what is agreed so now says he won't pay (we both work equally in our own company) for English schools for our older children, who do not speak the local language and have no connection to the country aside from summer holidays. The younger ones are already in said country, going to a local creche since May and I am in with them trying to organise the move. He is coming in mid-July with the other kids and the UK house will be rented out. I've constantly said I want our possessions stored in the UK but he is insisting on them being shipped and stored in the destination country. I had thought we could try to have a nice summer holiday together and see if we can rebuild a relationship and move forward in the new country.
But now I am really worried about being stuck out here once all the kids are here and having no right to return home (UK) with them if it all turns to custard. We fight constantly and he often tells me to go back to my home country, so this may well be on the cards.
Do you think I can still claim it is just a summer holiday if I take them back in September? Or is 6 months of them being here, in schools, the cutoff point for them being deemed habitually resident? Or is it just that I CANNOT take them out of the country at all without his consent once they are all here? I am panicking this week as it may be my last chance to get back to the UK with the 2 younger kids and start a divorce in the UK. If I take the kids back to where we currently officially live (the UK) I'm hardly abducting them, surely, even if it is without his consent? I'm then bringing the kids to him not away from him, aren't I?
I've also put this to babybarrister and hoping to have a phone call with a specialist soon. But any experiences or thoughts would be welcome.

I don't understand, sorry.

Where is the family home?

Sorry, just re-read.

Move back to the UK now, before he makes the move abroad. Then you're doing nothing wrong.

I'm not an expert but leave now and return to the U.K. while the family home, posessions and older kids are there and you're still resident there and just on a language learning holiday right now would be my advice.

From what I know I think considering the length of time your younger dc have been there and the fact that you both discussed with intention the permanency of the move that you could not claim it was a holiday. In UK AFAIK 6 months is considered the cut off for habitual residency.

Tricky situation OP, but seeing as the whole family is not yet settled together you may be able to come back to UK in order to start divorce proceedings. Hopefully you will get a response from barrister soon

Have you got British citizenship yet?
The "new" non-UK country...is this the birth country of your DH?
If so, are your DC citizens (i.e. registered citizens or entitled) of that country?
Exactly how long have you been living there and did your DH give a permission letter for solo travel with children?

Reading your post...I'm worried that your DH is asking you to move with DC back to his birth country which DC also hold citizenship of. And asking you to do this before you have British citizenship.

If this is the case, definitely do not make the move for any reason whatsoever.

He is in Britian with your older children and you are in the EU with your younger ones, correct ?

Move home now.

ASAP if you think it is going tits up. Reunite the family, then take it from there.

Hello, thank you all. Just to think there are people willing to lend a hand right now is great.
DividedKingdom, no there is no connection for either of us, just a holiday home here and previous summer holidays. He is a citizen of another EU country. We've been here 2 months and no, I don't have any permission letter but often travel with the kids on my own. In fact I do most things on my own, so have no fear of being a solo mother!

Residency rules changed a couple years ago.

I'm pretty sure that given you have recent history of several years full residency and multiple ties (work, family, home) then you have not broken residency for this year so far BUT it is hideously complex and you need advice from an expert IMHO.

Here's an overview which is not terribly helpful but demonstrates the complexity of the new system introduced www.blplaw.com/media/how-can-we-help-you/private-client/BLP%20Summary%20flowchart.PDF

OK, that's good. The specific laws will depend on the country. Do you have British citizenship yet and if not are you 100% sure that this time out of the UK wont impact your application eligibility?

p.s. you are right to seek urgent advice. An acquaintance of mine got done for international child kidnapping under the Hague Convention once

Hi, Thanks DividedKingdom. I have PR and the citizenship is lodged and being processed.
Yes, that's what I'm worried about but hope that taking the children TO him rather than away from him would be key. But trying to take them back once we are all settled here is probably viewed quite differently.

If I do it this week the shit will completely hit the fan. Of course I want to keep my family together and it is lovely here but I think the risks and impacts on the kids are too much. On that front he's told me I worry too much but in the next breath tells me he's sick of me and I should go back to my home country. So that's comforting...

You need to contact a solicitor asap. Get all your ducks in a row before you leave and he returns because once he knows you aren't going to stay, he could will make life very difficult for you.

I do not know how and when a court decides a child is habitually resident, so it's best to get professional advice rather than our best guesses.

Good luck and prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Thanks Isetan...shit/fan is going to sum up this week I think...

Lawyer here in U.K. I don't know where you are but I know a bit about international law. From what you've said I believe your DC will be classed as habitually resident in the country you are in once your DH and older kids arrive as it will be classed as a permanent change in your living arrangements. If you don't want to get stuck there come back now. You're not abducting them back here. If your DH wants to take them to live abroad without your consent the court here will have to make that decision around what is in their best interests. I can't tell you what would happen if you had to start court proceedings abroad to come back with your DC but I'm guessing it would take time and by then your DC are becoming more settled over there.

Have PM'd you.

Come back, right now. Shitty fan or not!

I don't know the detail of the law AT ALL. But it seems clear that if you don't come back, you're committing yourself to this course of action and you could end up very bitterly regretting it.

Come back, and you have options.

Stay there, and he has you over a barrel- you won't be able to come back.

So I'd protect myself now, get into that safer position then start thinking about what you really want to do.

Thanks so much...trying to hold onto the idea that sun and sangria will fix everything is no longer cutting it. And I can't put it down to moving nerves, as the past few years have been really crap and anyone who knows the situation tells me it is EA (my family won't even speak to him).

Please please get legal advice today. Subject to what they say prepare yourself for a swift flight back to the uk with the kids - i.e. Locate and pack up vital items and documentation such as birth certificates etc. It is likely you won't be returning to that house for months if not years. Are you able to find copies detailing your h's income and other financial things? Make it a priority to find those too and take with you as once you do return things will get ugly pretty fast and you can expect passwords to bank accounts to be changed, access to income to be stopped (I was utterly naive and the bank account was in his name only so he tried to force me out of the uk by cutting off any income for the children and I). I suspect everything will feel quite surreal at the moment but just try to think with your head xx

Get all the paperwork together and save soft copies as well. Make sure you have enough money in your own bank account and get back to the UK.

You know what to do so go and book flights asap! Your husband sounds like he'd will isolate you further now that you are in another country, away from your support network.

Thanks PPO, I am doing as you suggest. Completely tied in knots but trying to keep head working. I have a great family and friends behind me, and now MN! xx

I don't know anything about the legal side but I think it logical that you bringing the children back to him in the UK couldn't be seen as abduction.

Your relationship sounds hideous. Your family don't speak to him. He tells you to go back to your own country. He refuses to pay for school for your older children so potentially making this move very hard on them. He is emotionally abusive.

Once you move it becomes very different legally and it sounds as if being together constantly with the stress of a move and settling in etc with all the stresses that entails will but extra strain on the relationship.

I would be booking flights back to UK asap.

By the way, when you book your flights to the uk make sure they are one way only, even if they are more expensive than a return.

Also if there's stuff you can't fit in your suitcase for the trip back, box it up now and get it posted back to yourself in the uk or someone you can trust there.

Thanks!

Hope you're doing OK @Rattyandmole