Escorts - perspective urgently needed

[rebelrebel3]

So I've been reading the 'husband watching porn" thread and thinking about the spectrum of views - right through from condemnation/ disgust to comfortable acceptance - and am wondering if the same re use of escorts? My dp has a thing for this and despite claiming to have put it behind him, whenever I check up on this (ie stalk him, I know it's wrong but I get desperate at times), then there's always a last time within the last few months. Because he can't talk openly about it and lies his head off, I'm then left having to assume he does this quite a lot - I don't mean daily (he wouldn't have the time or money) but it could potentially be as much as once a week, just in terms of opportunity. At my most anxious this is what I think - but if if I had to put money on it I'd guess at 3 or 4 times a year.
We have a great relationship in all respects except this but it's hard not to let it affect everything else, especially how I feel sexually. One of the worst aspects is not knowing how to respond, sometimes I have to split up with him but mainly I'm telling myself to find a way to cope better, be more accepting etc - which is why the porn thread was so interesting. So many of you seem to have accepted that watching porn is a normal part of life and crucially, you've stopped wanting to control your man's behaviour / sexuality (or perhaps you never wanted to control him in the first place). I think I'm quite controlling and I think this comes from a place of fear and wanting to feel safe /loved for who I am, which I never have. DP feels i am intrusive and over-demanding - that I should accept there's a 'him' who I have a relationship with and other aspects that are none of my business. I don't really know how he feels at heart about the escort thing - I think extremely mixed up, but at least part of him thinks it's a normal part of male sexuality (he's said this on occasion) so when he talks about it as something he's given up, like an addiction, it lacks credibility.
Sorry this is so long- winded but I would love to know your responses - would you try to accommodate the escorts or would see this as - dealbreaker.

Sorry, I don't see how this can be real - you know he's continuing to pay to sleep with other women while in your relationship, and you're still with him? Where's your self respect?

Wow, thanks so much everyone for your responses, this feels like an incredible amount of support and amazingly, not one of you supports the view I've been trying so hard to take - ie that this is a private thing and none of my business, equivalent to watching porn.

I guess I'm shocked by the strength of some of the responses and it makes me wonder why I've not reacted the same way. I think a lot of it is because I've stalked him so much - checking his phone, looking at his internet history, rummaging through his belongings, you name it - which he sees as disgusting behaviour and I agree. I've never done this in any other relationship and it feels truly awful. His view is, 'you stalk me like a maniac, rake through all my private stuff and then have the nerve to complain about what you find '... He's convinced me that no-one would stand up to this level of scrutiny and that the problem is me being so controlling and intrusive. He also turns things around to say that if he stalked me god knows what he'd find, it's just that he wouldn't behave in this awful, voyeuristic way.
A few of you asked if he's really having sex with escorts. The answer is yes definitely, it's just the frequency I don't know. On the rare occasions when I've really challenged him (having found the evidence) he's admitted it, on other occasions I've been 90% certain but said nothing. The last definite occasion i know of was 2 months ago. He admitted this one last night and is now furious with me, saying yet again I've ruined everything (as we've been getting on really well and had a lovely weekend)... He described the conversation as 'yet another ritual humiliation' and implied that I somehow enjoy putting him through this, as if it's an obsession of mine and sort of disgusting - like wanting to spy on your neighbours having sex or something.
The main feelings I have today are remorse, self-loathing and fear that I'll end up losing him. I know this makes me sound like a total idiot and is the complete opposite of what I should feel...but I want to be honest in the hope of getting help. How can I find it in myself to react more appropriately? What the hell is wrong with me?

He's convinced me that no-one would stand up to this level of scrutiny and that the problem is me being so controlling and intrusive.

To which the only answer is 'Fuck off you are sleeping with prostitutes. You mental case'.

Why would you want to keep him? Seriously - why would you think that a man who pays to use women's bodies like that would ever, EVER, be the best you could do?
Why are you trying to justify it to yourself?

I was talking to my sister and aunt about this the other night.

You don't hear about how women need an escort, do you?

Because they don't. Nor do men.

If he can't be monogamous with someone who wants monogamy then he shouldn't be with that person.

It's bullshit men always want sex and women don't. I'm horny multiple times a day, but I don't expect to be serviced.

In fact it's easier for males - a female orgasm is a lot harder to get to.

I'm saddened you feel like you have to put up with it.

But if you won't leave at least get a decent man to be with when you're not with him.

He won't mind as it's OK if he does it, so can you.

Oh wait no it isnt, it's being a cheat when a woman does it.

My DH and I aren't perfect. But we have full access to each other's phones and property. He'd absolutely stand up to the scrutiny you are putting your partner through. As would I.

Not all men use prostitutes. Find one that doesn't and ditch this loser.

We have a great relationship

No, you really don't.

You need therapy darling. Your self esteem is on the floor. How can you bear it knowing your husband fucks other women?

You have a great relationship- as long as you don't expect your views to be respected. He is sleeping with other women you do not have sex with him from now until he shows you a clear STI test, and I suggest you get one too.

The mistrust and the escort issue goes hand in hand. If he didn't lie about sleeping with them behind your back you wouldn't feel compelled to find the proof.

So either he continues sleeping with escorts and tells you this at the time. So is that something you'd be happy with.

Or you dump and find someone with similar values to you

And as for how you 'should' feel react etc. Balls to that react however you want to. There is no right or wrong way but if the situation isn't working for then you need to take control and change that

The last definite occasion i know of was 2 months ago. He admitted this one last night and is now furious with me, saying yet again I've ruined everything (as we've been getting on really well and had a lovely weekend)... He described the conversation as 'yet another ritual humiliation' and implied that I somehow enjoy putting him through this, as if it's an obsession of mine and sort of disgusting - like wanting to spy on your neighbours having sex or something.

You haven't ruined anything. He has, by sleeping with sex workers and then getting angry with you when you found out.

If it's not a big deal why has he been keeping it secret from you? Why hasn't he been open and honest with you? "I'll be a bit late home tonight because I have to go and screw a hooker. Don't wait up!" I wouldn't stand for that, but at least you'd know where you were if he did that. If you're not happy with his habits, either you can leave him, or he can stop it. I don't think he'll stop, so you can either put up with him treating you horribly, or you can leave.

Oh rebel, don't blame yourself. I'd put money on him having slowly chipped away at your self esteem over the years (google "boiled frog"). You're not reacting normally, at a guess, because he has trained you not to react normally.

I just want to re-iterate my suggestion that you get counselling. Not, whatever you do, couples counselling (because it's not appropriate in your situation - he would only use it to gas-light you), but therapy on your own to help you build self-esteem.

And please work towards dumping him. It may take you time to get in the right mindset but it's the only thing you can do long term.

OP -- He sounds awful. Of course you are entitled to snoop if someone you are supposed to be able to trust (and who is supposed to be faithful to you) does this. You are worth so much more than this man. He is trying to make you out to be the one in the wrong just to cover himself.

You will feel so much better about yourself if you get rid of him.

God - this is appalling op! I can hardly believe it's real!

Do NOT allow him to treat you like this - it's totally unacceptable. The reason you feel the need to go through his phone is because you know he's a lying shitbag. He has lied to you and betrayed and humiliated you over and over again.

All your efforts now should go into getting him out of your life and then arranging some counselling to stop yourself ending up in this kind of situation again. Good luck.

Porn is fine.

Sleeping with other people, whether you pay them or not, is cheating and it's not acceptable.

I would LTB for this.

Why are you scared of losing him? What the fuck is so great about him? Do you live together?

Put the shoe on the other foot. Get an escort or pretend to. I know two wrongs don't make a right but it's so tempting!!!!

I haven't read the porn thread but for me/us as a couple it's not for us. Hubby gets threatened and jealous by the 'size' of the men, he likes to think he has a massive member!!! For me I don't like the fact that the women in porn get the great side of a marriage, all the attention and a sexual fantasy or fantasies...

That's just my little aspect on it all though!!!

Xx

Omg I feel like a freak. I DO absolutely know what I want (monogamy, trust) but it's complicated. We both left marriages to be together but whereas I did this 'cleanly' - did it swiftly with no second thoughts - my partner took several years over it and I'm pretty sure was leading a double life all that time. He didn't tell his wife (who lives abroad) about me and would regularly go on short breaks with her and their child, saying it was just to be with the little one. I assumed he was still sleeping with his ex but he denied this strongly and angrily - said it was all about the child. I was in agony about all this.

At the time , Dp saw some texts between me and a male friend which he assumed was an affair - actually there was no sex involved but it was definitely emotional infidelity in that i was talking my friend about all my problems and getting a lot of support and hugs from him. Dp also caught me on a dating site, chatting to other men - this was my distraction when he was in hols with his ex. Dp says he's never trusted me since (nearly 3 yrs) and assumes I'm as dodgy as he is. Though I do know that the escort habit goes back a long time before we met.

Sounds like a bit of a time bomb that was/has been ticking away on both sides. Honesty is the best policy but if neither of you can figure it out or let it go then you will have to let each other go. Nothing/no one or any relationship is perfect but they have to have two happy people in them so you can live a content life and feel loved and secure - which you would if you were both happy. We've all made mistakes but how many is one too many?? Only you can answer that???

Xxxxxxxx

I'm loathe to do the "armchair psychologist" bit, but it does sound as though you're punishing yourself, first for leaving your first husband, and secondly for the "emotional affair". I think you may also be falling victim to the sunk costs fallacy - "I've given up so much to be with this man, I'd better stick with him through thick and thin either it will all be for nothing..."

Whereas really - you left your first husband honestly, rather than jerking him around by having a bit on the side. Okay, painful for both of you, but you did the best you could in the circumstances, and did so honourably. The emotional affair - well, with a "DP" who was going off on holidays with his wife (bet she didn't realise she was an ex... of course he was still sleeping with her, they all do) - not surprising you wanted emotional support where you could get it (in fact, I reckon it was your subconscious screaming at you "you can do better... how about this guy for starters?")

And of course your DP assumes you're as dodgy as he is. This is not because you are. This is an equal part of projection on his part (he justifies being a completely amoral gobshite by telling himself "everyone's at it") and gas-lighting you ("let me take something really minor she's done, blow it up out of all proportion, then make her suffer for it so she won't see the fucking great big awful thing I'm doing for what it is.")

This is how men like him operate. There's nothing nice about him at all, he's a serial adulterer and uses women as wank socks. Don't waste your life on him, and don't waste it feeling guilty.

This man has done an absolute number on your self-esteem. HE is the one sneaking about and shagging hookers. I don't think it's at all bad that you stalk him, because it's the only way that you can possibly learn the truth of what he is up to. yet he makes you feel like your behaviour is disgusting! The worst type of deflection and gaslighting, he has got you feeling sorry just for existing.

Can I ask why you don't just LTB? Are you married? Do you own a house together? Any DCs?

I can't imagine what kind of life this must be and I cannot imagine that a single life- even in relative poverty- would be worse than what you have to tolerate right now. And he doesn't love or respect you. He cannot possibly and still behave like this.

It's not often on mumsnet that I am absolutely shaken to the core by something I read, but this has absolute done for me. I want to give you a massive hug and make you get the strength to get away.

Hedgehog if this is armchair psychology you are brilliant at it! Thank you so much. I am defo punishing myself and this is a lifelong habit, I always feel I'm falling short in every aspect of my life, am second rate and sort of grasping and grabby - wanting stuff I don't deserve. I don't mean things, just love basically. I think a big reason I was trying to accept the escorts is because the thing with his ex was so much worse - a real relationship as opposed to 'just sex'. If I really force the issue about escorts I fear he'll just find someone to have a normal affair with and then replace me. This is his pattern I am just realising, duh.

What?? OP why are you putting up with this? No. It is not acceptable. Never. Please get out of this relationship. It's not healthy and all the snooping and suspecting will drive you mad. I've been there. It might hurt in the short term but it will feel so much better in the long term. You deserve more than this.

Yes but none of it is acceptable op. Escorts are no better than an ex. It's all wrong. Your thinking is so skewed on this.

Interesting he describes it as 'ritual humiliation'... I think any man who sleeps with escorts has deep down a contempt for women and a love of power games. Then he tells you or you find out- which is even more humiliation.

But it's humiliation of YOU. It's power games over YOU.