emphatic narcissist - is it possible?

[grittypetal]

Hi everyone, I am still struggling to get my head around splitting from the exP and him moving on afterwards. I came across some descriptions of narcissists as he actually fits a lot of them - full of himself, contemptuos of others, taker rather than giver, treated our family more like an end to his needs, deep inside - low self esteem etc.. However, most descriptions seem to emphasize that narcisists lack emphaty and cannot feel other peole. Well he is the opposite - he feels the others with a scary accuracy.
How could it be possible?

You can be in tune with people and feelings and have empathy...but whether or not you then feel compassion is another thing.

I guess having empathy, doesn't mean you feel empathy towards others. If that makes sense.

Does he actually "feel" others or is he just really good at reading people/situations?

This is quite interesting.

Empaths read other people’s energy for selfless reasons, and mainly so that they can be compassionate and reach out to offer support, healing and understanding. When they attune to other people’s emotions, feelings and tendencies they gain a deeper connection and generally find it natural to show compassion and be empathetic. Empaths transmute negative energy that radiates from people’s emotional states and they do this by absorbing the heavy, low vibrational signals that people emanate and they replace them with light, loving, caring high vibrations that are healing, peaceful and harmonious.

Narcissists read other people’s energy purely for selfish reasons and it is mainly so that they can then control, manipulate, delude and overpower other people. When they profile people by reading their energy they gain a greater insight into how their mindset works and the state of their emotional and mental wellbeing. This gives them a huge advantage over any unsuspecting, vulnerable or naïve person they come into contact with because the narcissist appears to be interested in the other person—by displaying faux care mixed with a little charm—so that they can fool them into thinking they are a genuinely empathetic person. The trouble is they only show interest to people if they think it will benefit them in some way, whether emotionally, financially or materialistically.

Not quite sure what you mean by feel other people. Sorry to be an arse and have to ask.

Presuming you mean he knows what others are feeling in a situation this isn't, per se, empathetic. That would depend on how sympathetic he is towards what others feel.

Also you can get two types of narcissist - overt and covert. Covert types are less obvious (If that's not too an obvious thing to say!!).

Also i wanted to note that it's possible he's not a narcissist either,just an arsehole.
You seem very eager to put him in a certain box it won't di any good,and all you're doing is giving him more head space.

I am trying to put him in a certain box... Indeed, he blames me for everything before and after the seaparation, and I know I've got a fair share of what went wrong on me ... Suppose I am trying to overcome this terrible feeling of guilt about having fucked up the family ... So if I could label him with a psychological sounding label that would help me get off the hook a bit. I am still totally hooked on him

gluteus; absolutely right.

From the little you have said , he treated you badly,he was an asshole and manipulated you and the situation as much as he could, maybe even gaslighted you. You were unhappy. That's a good enough reason. You didn't break up the family,he did with his behaviour.
Ofc he will blame you and go for weak spots..it's what assholes do.
But speaking from experience,trying to define and understand his behaviour/him doesn't help.
"X was wrong. It made me unhappy" it's enough justification.

it hurts so much to see him losing the connection with the kids and him drifting away and being so nice to his new gf

I worked with a narcissist who gave a very good appearance of empathy. Anyone who was going through problems, she would home in on like a heat seeking missile, being mega supportive. People thought she was a wonderful, caring person. She would take new staff under her wing.

But anyone who started to assert their independence or who didn't need looking after so didn't respond to her nurture bombing, she would knife in the back while still doing the public empathy act. So vulnerable, dependent people saw the best side of her, people who were trying to be strong and independent got a good kicking.

Sound familiar? I expect he treated you like he's currently treating his new girlfriend in the early days, didn't he? It won't last, poor love. I hope she's got the strength that you have to get out before she loses herself completely.

Hi grittypetal

I lived with one of those for several years. Almost the same. After a while I worked it out that he could intellectualise what was going on emotionally for the other person (elderly parent, child, friend) but either could not, or would not, actually feel for what they were experiencing, good or bad.

It is disorienting, especially at first, because his wisdom was great, more often than not. But I use the word wisdom with reservations here, because to me, that implies some element of reaching for the greater good, whereas my Ex-DP's approach was 100% all about him.
He was working other people out for his advantage only, and if, in conversation I got the benefit of some of that, then that in itself was only designed to impress me even more and make me more dependent upon him.

Hope this makes sense. And know what you mean about being totally hooked on him. I've moved out of the home I shared with my Ex-DP, and have regained masses of control over my own life, which I was losing while living with him. But he's still around, and doing the old push-pull thing, trying to play with my mind and break my resolve. It's hard, because I miss so much of what was good about him - so I keep on reminding myself of the crap, which helps - a lot.

There was an article in yesterday's Guardian about empathy:
"Cognitive empathy is recognising what somebody else is feeling. Affective empathy is the emotional state that is triggered by recognising what somebody else is feeling. (A psychopath might have high cognitive empathy but low affective empathy, for instance; just because you’re good at reading someone’s feelings doesn’t mean you care about them.) And there’s a third kind of empathy, consolatory empathy, or acting on those feelings."

Being a bastard to you and your DC whilst looking to the outside world (mainly you) like he's lovely to his new GF is just how someone like this operates. It absolutely doesn't mean that you made him be a bastard. You'll know yourself how important a public face is to him so of course it's going to look great from the outside. You'll also know how good he was at love-bombing a new partner at the start.

Thank you so much for your replies.
Dear blessedbrian, you are spot on about the wisdom he possesses. He can judge peoples characters and motives - especially ulterior ones - so well. I makes me think I lost someone deep and special. Now I just cannot imaging being with someone who does not have this deep wisdom and understanding.
It might be a telling sign that the people with whom he establishes lasting connections invariably seem to be of a weaker character than him.

Just remind yourself of how he uses this "wisdom ". He doesn't use it to help,advise or support but rather to manipulate and exploit. He used it as a weapon. He used it against you and his children.

Is this wisdom still admirable?

Thank you, Rogue. I am not sure if he used the wisdom against the children, I think he does love them - even if he did not really bother to do much with them after we split but rather moaned about not being able to be with them anymore because of the badness of their mother (me) . Never really offered to help out after the split though...

You are still defending him,which is understandable as you're still hooked. All I can say is that it will take time,but you will be unhooked and see him for what he is. A manipulative,exploitative arsehole.
However you wasted enough time and headspace on him,it's time to start living the rest of your life.

Yes its possible. Goldfishcrackers has it..

Psychopathyandnarcissismhave been associated with impairments in affective but not cognitive empathy. Cognitve empathy is the ability to understand someones emotions and motivations - a good torturer needs to have high levels of CE in order to get in thier victims head and use it against them - doesnt make them a great person in my book. Affective empathy isnt great in isolation either as the empath feels the other person (and often their pain) deeply. This doesnt allow for the detachment required to determine a positive course of action; which a congitive empath could.... they could also easily manipulate a negative outsome too.

Wtf? Sorry about the lack of spacings

This is really interesting. My ex had narc tendencies (I only realised after 20 years of marriage) but was also very good at reading people, which confused me.

I've been think about what Rogue said, indeed, I am trying to try to label him because... I am still so confused about the time we'd spent together, was it really all my fault? A lot of it was indeed, but I knew it at the time and tried my best to change and to improve. Whereas , towards the end, it just seemed that he was quite happy for me to be confused and unstable. Any discussions on the unbearable state of affairs - intiated invariably be me - used to end up in him blaming me.
If, however, I manage to pin his own condiction as, say, narc, then it would absolve me from the guilt and torturous thinking that I'd made one huge mistake of our family life which mattered to me more than anything