Emotional abuse of children - when will this become a criminal offence

[greenberet]

Just lost a long thread - this is long too

Basically with EA now a recognised crime against spouses how long before it filters down and becomes a crime against children.

Both my kids are being E & FA by their DF yet cannot or do not want to admit it. DS has been referred to PCAMS but refused to attend after one session and both referred to CAFCASS by my MH worker but due to their age of 15 it was not progressed,

dS displays EA to myself and my DD particularly after visits to his DF when his behaviour becomes worse.

Both kids are now kicking off at me because I have asked them to run by me any arrangements they want to make for the summer before going ahead and discussing with their friends.

They think this is unfair. They think this is me trying to control them. They do not see this as respectful communication .

For the last 2 months they have been unable to help me with any household chores because "they have had revision to do" I have held back as much as I was able to but told them they would make up for it in the holidays. Their DF was never able to do anything as he was "always working" I know now this is intentional neglect and is abusive behaviour - my own DF used the work thing in some instancestoo. This is still X's excuse now - he cut short his contact time yesterday by 4 hours because he needed to be somewhere for work on Father's Day - whether this is true who knows - I expect they are questioning it too,

They are having to deal with leaving their private school and their friends because their DF says he can no longer afford it yet he manages to take them to top notch restaurants for their birthday and Father's Day - the fact that these were places we went to as a family or as a couple is his way of continuing to abuse me too.

the family home has been sold due to manipulation by the x even after he told them we wouldn't need to do this. He has got 100 % of the business, is paying me nothing and I am having to go through CMS to get what he should be paying for his kids and benefits to support myself whilst I deal with the fallout.

It is day one of 11 weeks of summer - both of them have made arrangements with their friends without asking me first. When I said no to these I have got my DS saying he wants to kill himself and my DD throwing a tantrum and saying why am I punishing her when she has done nothing wrong - she says all she wants to do is see her friends.

They do not see the behaviour of their DF as being EA or if they do they will not admit it - I get this it is a huge psychological impact to have to acknowledge that a parent Is unable to love you unconditionally or put their needs first above his desire to destroy me.

Yet when I try and show them how we need to communicate, set boundaries they object and I get accused of being abusive because I shout and I am angry. Their DF rarely shows his anger in obvious ways and therefore it is me with all the behavioural problems and my mental health gets thrown in my face time and again just as my mothers did. ( I know shouting is abusive - see below)

I realise I was never allowed to question my own DF growing up, I was never allowed or taught how to discuss an opinion or emotion that went against him. I am always saying nobody listens to me or takes anything I have to say seriously. The consequences of this have been with me throughout my life - I have depression, I have had difficulties at work in communicating or asserting myself which led to post traumatic stress disorder in my last place of employment hence not having worked for 20 years. I have trust issues even more so after the treatment of my legal team - I am continually questioning people's behaviour towards me to see if it is genuine or their is an ulterior motive.

I am 52 I am doing continuous work on myself to overcome this - whether i will get past this I cannot say. It is exhausting.

I do not want my children having to live with this internal damage - I have questioned the courts ruling that children need to have contact with both parents over and over and stupidly encouraged this at the beginning as it was the "right" thing to do. My x would have used this against me anyway as he did whenever I tried to stand up to him.

The kids are off for 11 weeks he has made no contact with me about having them for any extra time or discussed it with them direct. The only additional arrangement is one week when he takes my Ds on holiday with OW and her kids.

I hate the situation they are in through no fault of their own but I cannot let them continue to think this behaviour is normal, that this is how you treat people you are supposed to love. I cannot go with the notion that they will see it for themselves eventually because unless they are aware that there is another way how will they question it. I thought my childhood was pretty normal and unwillingly subjected them to EA by ending up with an X who was like my own DF. The X's family dynamics are also E&FA but doubt he will even go here as he then has to acknowledge his own part in this when it is far easier to blame me.

There are so many cases on here where EA is taking place unknowingly, there are so many cases on here where it is taking place knowingly but without enough resources in place to help those that need help. There are so many threads I have read where adults are still damaged from their own childhoods and these are from people who confront the abuse. We cannot rely on the law as it is to protect ourselves or our children - it is just encouraging the abuse to continue and failing us appallingly

How do we get this changed - can we get this changed - just interested in views

This could be my childhood I'm reading about, I feel for you and your children. My DF used to EA and PA me, my brother and DM for years.

I can't answer all of your concerns, only some but from the outside it looks like your XH is going to be a pain so there is nothing you can change about his behaviour, it's your own (and your kids) methods of dealing with him and each other that you need to work on.

Personally, I would recommend counselling for you alone, and also together with the kids, so that you can work on your issues. You all seem to be on the edge, so any little innocent conversation, like the summer planning, will just descend into arguments.

Mental health is massively important, and from personal experience, would recommend that once you work on that aspect of your life other things will seem easier to work on.

Good luck!

Teenagers can be very self centred at the best of times and having their father as their father, just exacerbates it. As understandable as your frustrations are being shouty isn't helping communication and is the very type of behaviour that you complain about. Lead by example and read up on developing strategies to cope with living with teenagers.

I doubt much will happen, there are still people who think its fine to hit children. The reason given as its disciplining them was pretty much the same as used to be given to hit your wife. It should be an offence to abuse kids in either of these ways but there are too many who think its just discipline.

Oscar- thanks for the understanding and support - I am being assessed for more counselling this week. If my post comes across that we are all on the edge I think that is probably how we are - I have suggested family counselling the kids want nothing to do with it.
Isetan - I am fully aware being shouty is not the best way of communication - I have been trying to communicate with them for the last 2.5 years and have read several books on teenagers. The difficulty I have is they do not want to discuss the situation at all but they need to. Their father discusses nothing with them just tells them what he's doing and they have to fit in as he did with me throughout the marriage. This does nothing to develop their self esteem nor their ability to negotiate or compromise - they just want to avoid any decision making at all because any discussion leads to conflict in their eyes.
Old rock - this is exactly what I am saying - how many more generations are going to go through this before something is done. Whilst there
Are no consequences for abusing children it will continue -and they wonder why there is such an increase in children's mental health issues and self harm

Is it definitely not a crime?

As far as I know, the definition of domestic abuse (which is a crime) in all of it's forms including emotional and psychological, is abuse which occurs within any relationship.

Even a working relationship. So surely the relationship between a parent and child would be included?

There must be a Mumsnetter out there who knows for sure?

Excellent - hope it goes well

It should become criminal but I believe it would be hard to prove.

Maybe my thoughts on things may help you.

It seems to me the damage has already been done. You have said you've read lots of books on teenagers etc - do they offer any suggestions on how to respond to them when they organize things without discussing first etc. I think this would be a good point to try and get them round to the idea of more 'adult thinking'. Because that's what it is, as well as the affect of some of the adults in their life.

If their father is not initiating any contact - maybe you could look at this as a blessing, do the children mention that they'd like to see him etc? If they do, do you gently explain that this is the way some people are, and it's not very good, you're sorry he is this way, shall we go do x or y tomorrow night? If their father is a bad influence on their emotional well being as you've said, don't encourage contact.

I can understand why you want to discuss things with them, and how this is going against what the other parent is doing, and it's not a good upbringing for your children on his part!!

As I mentioned the damage has been done, I have found working through issues like these backwards to be of help. For example the organizing of outings with friends etc, you can try changing your reaction to this (even though you told them beforehand to discuss). This is not pandering, they are going through massive hormonal changes, they have changed schools and do not want to lose their friends, these are the biggest things in their lives right now and this is what matters to them. Attitudes CAN be changed with time and healing, experiences whilst growing cannot be replaced.

Remain happy and positive throughout a discussion like this. You can try it once and if it doesn't work out then fair enough. Obviously if what they tell you is outrageous don't do this!

Child: Oh mum I'm going to the beach this weekend with y
You: Ok sweetie that sounds great, do you need a new beach towel or flip-flops?
Child: possibly pause Ermm i'm good thanks mum
You: All right! Ok let's have a quick chat then need to have an inquisitive and approving stance what do you think you guys will get up to? Who else is going? etc etc
Child: responds
You: Wow that's cool, i'm happy for you! But honey next time check with me first because I wanted to do x with you! But it's ok we can do it another weekend, just check with me the next time so our schedules don't clash! smile and walk away

In regards to doing chores, tell them you understand they have revision, but will ask on occasion for them to just quickly help you with something. For example when you're in the kitchen and one of them comes in , take the trash out of the bin, and just ask them to hold the bin for you(even if you don't need it), that's it. Work it back up from there slowly and make it a part of daily living. Don't use chores as a punishment or offer rewards for it, housework is a part of daily life and this should be normal to children growing up.
Consider ways to lighten your load - you may be in a position to say, ok guys now you're getting older, we can all clean up after ourselves at dinnertime, so we're all washing our own plates from now on, or laundry etc. Have a think.
Best of luck.

Thanks musical some good points there for me to try