TW mention of stillbirth - I think I need help? Or just a bit of perspective, perhaps...?

[JennyRMorris]

I feel like this is going to be quite a long ramble so apologies in advance.. I just need some help.

My OH and I have been together for approaching two years. The relationship is generally good and we are stable I would say, most of the time. We live together, (my house/mortgage).
We recently suffered the loss of our DS, who was stillborn at 38+2, four weeks ago today.

We are both still grieving, obviously and we are dealing with things quite differently, however we seem to be strong and we are leaning on each other a lot, especially me on him. If anything it has brought us closer together.

The problem I am currently experiencing (and have been for a while) is to do with one of my OHs friends. My OH would probably describe him as his best friend. He hasn't done anything directly to me but I feel like he hasn't helped our relationship over the past two years.

I'm being a bit vague, one example of "not helping" -

My OH likes to go out with said friend to the pub or wherever. Whenever they go out together they always get way too drunk, to a point where my OH doesn't come home, so I am unable to sleep or relax because I'm constantly waiting for him to get back and he doesn't come home.
This friend lives about 30 miles away and my OH practically always travels to him instead of friend coming to us, so it's not like he can just walk home after he's had a skin full.

The most recent incident was a few days after DS was born - OH went out on his motorbike to run some errands for his business, which I was fine with, I appreciated he needed a bit of time to himself and he had been amazing during the birth of DS and afterwards, I must reiterate how good he was, I couldn't have wished for a more supportive and caring person to go through the worst time of my life with.
Anyway, back to the story - he also went to see some of his friends, friend in question included. I sent him a text message at around 5pm, (he went out at about 11.30am) to see that he was ok and when he thought he would be home. He said he wanted to see another of his friends and would come home once he had seen him, I was expecting him to return at about 9/10pm. He didn't return. 3am rolls around and he asks me if i will go and pick him up as he was too drunk to ride home and he had been hiding in a park because he was worried the police would see him! I obviously obliged because I was worried about him and I just wanted him home and safe, he was about an hours drive away, at 3am and on no sleep I wasn't best pleased but I didn't feel that I could be that mad considering the circumstances.

This is not the first time this has happened, it used to occur before DS was even conceived (probably happened between 8-10 times in total I'd say, where he didn't come home when he had said on the night multiple times that he was just having one last drink and he would come home) we have had multiple discussions/arguments about his behaviour in the past and that I find it disrespectful that he can't just do as he said he would in the first place.
I find it annoying as I wouldn't do it to him.

I feel as though he is two different people at times. When he is with me, he is kind, caring, attentive, loving, I couldn't wish for a better partner. Then when "the friend" is involved he turns into this idiot who can't decide when he's had enough to drink and he forgets that I exist. I feel as though he's a bad influence on the OH, although it's no excuse, my OH is a grown man and should be able to make adult decisions by himself.

Anyway, last week or maybe the week before (after above incident), he mentions he would like to go out with said friend to get food/go to the pub. I said I wasn't comfortable with this as I wasn't prepared to go through another night of panicking. He didn't go out, but he was a bit pissed off about it.
He then asked how I would feel if he wanted to go away for a few days with said friend on the bikes or go out somewhere far away and stay over in a hotel so there was no worry about him coming home. I told him I didn't feel comfortable with this at the moment although to be honest I am unsure I will ever feel comfortable with this.

I feel like he's asking too much given his twatty behaviour previously. I'm worried he's going to do something stupid or something horrible will happen. I'm paranoid beyond belief.

I have quite a few friends and different circles of friends, although I don't see any of them that often really, this is the way it has always been between me and my friends and that for us is fine.
I just feel like my OH wants to see this friend all the time and as soon as he mentions him my heart drops because I'm worried about what will happen when they get together.

I did think that if OH goes away for an overnight piss up session that I should do the same, meet up with friends or have them come here and have a wine and film night or something? I just don't know how to stop panicking.

"The friend" came to our house last night, we all had a takeaway and sat in the garden, had a few drinks etc and I felt ok-ish and better for knowing where the OH was(!)

When "the friend" was leaving I overheard him and OH having a conversation, I didn't hear it in full however I picked up "the friend" saying that he had recently had a piss up session and drove home plastered at 4am, he was saying "it's just not worth it, mate". I heard my OH laugh and say "Well, I'm not going to deny that I enjoy it" Friend replied with "you just need to build some trust, mate, start slow and build up from there".

Now this is sound advice in my opinion, that is what we need to do and ideally a bit of trust needs to be created before I am going to be comfortable with OH spending time with friend in question. I felt like OH's attitude and reply was a bit shit to be honest and it made me question him a bit. I feel like he's just going to behave like a prick again as soon as he gets the opportunity.

I felt crap after hearing it - I suppose it confirmed that OH still wants to spend time with this person who causes us/me so much grief.
I feel like my thoughts about this person are not all that rational but I don't know how to be comfortable with him and my OH's friendship. For some reason I don't tend to put all the blame on OH, I have blamed the friend instead and it's resulted in me having this seriously strong dislike for him.

I suppose what I want to know is, am I being irrational?
Can anyone offer me another perspective because it's going around and around in my head constantly and I need something to either take this away or confirm that my feelings are normal and I'm not being mental.

If it makes any difference, Im 24 and OH is 31.

Thanks in advance.

I'm so sorry for your loss, if this is his attitude after something like the loss of your DS then I'd say run for the hills you are too young to be tied to a man child who loves a good piss up and thinks of you as her indoors it's too much.That doesn't sound like love to me

Set your bar higher state your worth and don't be talked out of it there are plenty of mnstrs who wished they'd done just that

I think I wasn't mad about it Twatty because I thought he had a good reason to not think straight.

The morning after he was very apologetic and said he didn't know what he was thinking etc etc. He seemed distressed and was crying, all very upsetting.

The morning after I had to go back to the hospital to sign paperwork so our little boy could be handed over to the funeral directors. It was so raw and painful. He came with me and he was a mess. I felt sorry for him because he was hurting.

Since then he hasn't been out on the piss. I had a discussion with him about it to which he said he wouldn't go out unannounced, he wouldn't stay out without prior organisation and warning and he wouldn't go out and not come home again when he said he would.

I have told him multiple times that he needs to grow up and be a bit more mature. It seems to go in one ear out the other.

These occasions are few and far between however it's enough to make me feel like shit. It feels disappointing because the relationship is good otherwise and he has been a rock for me during the last four weeks (apart from that one night).

Firstly I'm so sorry you lost your son. These are very early days after a devastating experience and I imagine you are emotionally very vulnerable. I hope you are aware of SANDS support.
Your OH is causing you a great deal of anxiety and he does not care about your feelings when he has the opportunity to rip up the next town. Even allowing for bereavement, his behaviour is selfish and immature.
You are not going mental, your partner is being an inconsiderate twat. He is not going to change, he will just learn to tell you what you want to hear and do exactly what he wants anyway. I think you are going to have serious trust issues with him long term, since he likes to party without you.
When you feel stronger I would give a lot of consideration to whether you have enough emotional energy to raise him AND any more children that might come along. Some women would have packed his bags and told him to leave after the episode where you collected him at 3am, several days after suffering a stillbirth. FFS, that is beyond belief.
You are still very young and have lots of time on your side to find a responsible man who respects your feelings so that you don't feel anxious all the time. In the meantime please be sure to use contraception until you have made a definite decision.

Always wondering what your OH and his friend are plotting behind your back will affect your health.

I was almost hoping all the mumsnetters would tell me I'm being unreasonable and give me some sort of insight into how to wrap my head around it all and be ok 🙁

You can do waaaay better than this man.
I hope you have real life support. You have a lot of grieving to do -- your tiny DS, your relationship, the future you thought you had. It's going to take a lot of time to begin to readjust.
You need to be focussing on yourself and on how you are going to get through this extremely difficult time without your partner adding to your worries with his recklessness. Drink riding is inexcusable. Imagine this role model as a father.

I do have family for RL support but I don't feel like they really understand what I'm going through and we aren't all that close. My OH has been a constant throughout the last four weeks. It's hard to imagine a life without him and I feel as though I owe him a lot for the help and support he has given me.
We have previously talked about marriage and being together long term. He's said he doesn't want anyone other than me but I suppose he would say that being as I'm a push over and put up with his shit behaviour.
It's so frustrating as 99% of the time he is brilliant and I couldn't ask or wish for a better partner.
Am I wrong to just accept that this is the way he is and I will have to have these episodes of misery in order to have a partner?
I feel lost. Really lost.

He should be able to see past his own grief and think of how going out and doing that would have hurt you.

The drink driving it utter stupidity but I know what it's like to feel that no one else understands and wanting to be close to the one person who does.

Would he have therapy or engage with a drugs and alcohol service? I know you have said you don't think it's an addiction problem but the drink riding just makes it sound like he has a death wish.

I've spoken to him before about having couple therapy/counselling and he said he wasn't keen and wouldn't feel comfortable with it.
I tried to get him to be more open with me and it worked, we had proper sit down conversations about our relationship and how we both felt etc.
I just feel like I can't get through to him about this going out business. Like other posters have said, he's probably not going to change.

I found counselling helpful, it was grief counselling but I talked about everything really at the time. Some outside RL perspective might help you.

I really feel for you, those early weeks the pain in indescribable it can be very lonely

Thank you Unborn.

It's hard to know what to do for the best and where to turn to.

I think I might look into counselling for myself, perhaps it will help give me some perspective.

Personally I would suggest that he goes to see his friend and takes his overnight stuff and stays over, then you get a good nights sleep and he isn't tempted to get on his bike, takes away the tension. I would be more worried about him trying to get back on the bike.

This is why when I go out I don't give a time that I'll be back. When OH goes out, I don't ask what time he'll be back. It's so easy to get carried away on a night out, I've been there, done it. Can't he stay with his friend when he goes out?

So sorry to hear about your son. I had a stillbirth with my DS at 37 weeks, I understand what you're going through, it really is a pain like no other. The drink driving is absolutely bang out of order, so selfish. I would tell him in no uncertain terms that if he does this again, you'll report him.

It's very soon for you both. Very very soon.

The thing is though, he was doing this before. He's still doing it now. Have counselling for yourself to help you get perspective. Ask him to get counselling too. Perhaps consider his behaviour with this particular friend in a joint session?

Thank you Take - it's devastating, it's practically impossible to describe how I feel as I'm sure you're aware.

I'm sorry to hear about your DS too. The heartbreak is crippling.

I think if it happens again I'll have to leave him, I can't cope with his attitude. Maybe he will change but I doubt it.

I think I'd feel better perhaps if I knew he wasn't coming home, i.e a pre-arranged night away. I suppose then I wouldn't have to stay up worrying and I could maybe do something with my friends instead.

I wish I could stop caring about it, it feels exhausting.

My ex used to do this, he was always upset about it the next morning. But he would just do it again, still did it once we had a child together. He went out and got totally smashed on the night of my dads funeral. Again was very upset with himself in the morning. I left him, he didn't change, hes just a selfish person.

I know because of your son you feel somehow you have gone through losing him together you owe him something, but his behaviour is telling you who he is, don't ignore it.

You are grieving and you need peace and time to do that, he's distracting you from that by being a complete twat.

Really sorry for your loss.

I think you need to give yourself time to grieve, I also would recommend counselling and joining a support group so you can talk to and share experiences with others who have been through this. Personally I don't think your partner will be grieving in the same way you are, you carried your son for nine months, felt him move, hiccup, worried when he was too still, knew which way he liked to lie, felt his feet, knees and elbows poking you, you knew when he slept and when he was awake, what music or sounds soothed him and what made him more lively, you loved him with all your heart and soul long before he was even born. For men the experience can't be the same, they are grieving the future son they dreamed of, you are grieving for a person, a little life you had come to know, cherish and love. You need support from others in real life.

And when mners tell you your partner won't change believe them. My ex would apologise til the cows came home, promise the sun, moon and stars and then turn around and do what he wanted to anyway. It was never his fault, he was entertaining clients, or needed to destress, or he'd just got caught up in the moment, so caught up he'd switch his phone off so no one could get hold of him! The more I asked him not to do this, the more I said I needed his support with our three children, one of whom has a chronic illness, the more he went out to the point where we wouldn't see him between Monday morning and Saturday morning. He would then spend the entire weekend recovering while I was left with the children, housework etc. He is now in his mid fifties and from what the children tell me of his lifestyle it seems nothing much has changed, except now he has to do his own laundry, cooking and cleaning.

Please think carefully about whether you want a future with someone who is so callous with your feelings, needs and wants that he can ask you, a few days post blrth and grieving, to drive a sixty mile round trip in the middle of the night to fetch him because he couldn't take responsibility for his alcohol consumption.

Exactly what Unicorn said.
Really feel for you op.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your son OP

Unicorn has it I think.

Op No advice but I just wanted to say I am so so sorry for the loss of your son. I lost my daughter at 40 + 4 almost 3 years ago and those first weeks and months were hellish. And no, nobody but you and your partner can really understand what you're going through no matter how supportive friends and family try to be.

The first night DH went out without me I was absolutely terrified. When a baby dies the whole world seems so fragile. So I can't imagine how you coped with your DH being out for so long and not knowing where he was.

It means a lot that your DH was supportive during the delivery - I know how important that is - but he really, really needs to be respectful of you now. Grieving a baby is hard and I expect some very hard times are still to come for you both and you will need to look after each other.

Posters above have suggested your DH may not change - and he may well not. But the advice I was given after my dd died was not to make any big life decisions for 6 months, as we'd both still be in shock and not in a good place to think through practicalities and long term implications.

My DH told me he used to have fantasies of walking out and leaving his whole life behind as he couldn't cope with the constant pain and sadness. He felt he could start again in a way I couldn't - he could go out with mates and put it out of his mind for an evening whereas the grief and horror was in my body and I couldn't get away. It's just my experience, but we had some awful rows in the first year but came out of it stronger. I hope you will too.

Huge, huge hugs.

Hi Bip,

I'm really sorry you've been through this hell too. It truly is awful.

We've had a massive argument this evening, he went out on the bike with said friend this afternoon and came home late, only after I had called him to see where he was - he was in the pub, of course.

I know I cannot continue dealing with the current anguish I'm feeling. I've decided I need to seek some form of help/counselling.

I thought about asking him to leave but I don't think I could cope right now on my own. I'm so torn and I don't know where to turn.

He doesn't understand how I feel.

I told him of the guilt I feel over the death of our son and that I feel I should have known something was wrong. I told him I feel suicidal at times and that I can't see a way to ever be happy again.

I'm lost.

Jenny, it's only been a few weeks, you haven't really had time for your loss to sink in let alone grieve. I haven't lost a child but have come close even still I cannot imagine the pain you must be in.

We all deal with grief differently, but I think your partner is being selfish in not letting you know where he is especially as this is so raw still. Yes of course you both need to let off steam in your way but you also need to be sensitive of each other's feelings too. Perhaps once the dust has settled from today's argument you might tell him that you just need to know where he is, not that you want to stop him processing his own grief. As Bip said, now is not the time for rash decisions. Gather some support, get your friends round, walk, cry, have long soaks in the bath, whatever helps but be gentle with yourself, give your body time to rest and heal and let your grief take its course.

Someone early up the thread mentioned Sands, www.sands.org.uk/, you may find support on their forum and possibly a support group near you. If you feel really suicidal then call the Samaritans, they will listen to you. Your GP may also be able to help with local resources and of course keep posting on here.

The suicidal thoughts come and go. I had a particularly bad night a few nights ago.

I find it so hard to see any kind of normal or happy future.
I can't see a baby without bursting into tears. All I can think is that it should be me and it isn't.

I know that if I was to fall pregnant again I would be consumed with worry. What if I miscarry? What if I never carry another baby to term? Can I go through it all again?

I just want my baby back, that's all I keep thinking, I just want my boy. I feel like my whole life is pointless now. All I want is to be a mum.

I kept thinking the other night that if I was to die at least I could be with Edward (DS) and I wouldn't have to go through this anymore, we could be together and neither of us would be alone.

I am yet to find anything that brings me any kind of peace.

I keep thinking if I was to be struck by lightening or hit by a bus it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Jenny, everything you've said about how you're feeling is so familiar to me. I wanted to die, I didn't want to take my own life, I just wanted to be with my son.. I wanted to go to sleep and never wake up. My arms literally ached to hold him, a real pain.

The guilt is awful. Of course I know now that it wasn't my fault but at the time I let the guilt eat me up. This was in no way your fault, there's NOTHING you could have done to stop this happening.

I also remember thinking that I'd never ever be happy again, never laugh again. I felt as though I was surrounded by people who just didn't understand what I was going through, it was hellish.

I'm 8 years down the road now and it hasn't been easy but life is happening again. Of course I've laughed and been happy, something I never thought was possible. You need to give yourself time to process all the emotions you will go through. 4 weeks is no time at all, you're probably still in shock. Feel free to pm me if you ever need to talk.

It's natural that at this devastating time you are yearning for love, support, comfort, reassurance.
You don't feel your family can give you this so you are turning to your partner, but he's not really there for you either for whatever reason - his own grief, selfishness.
No wonder you are feeling all alone in your grief while your recovering body is a constant reminder of what you have lost. There is help available as pp said, please reach out for it.
Phone Sands 0808 164 3332 - they offer help, support groups and information to answer all your understandable fears about future pregnancies. There are lots of downloadable booklets on their website. They might also be able to recommend a counsellor.
The Samaritans are available to listen to you, free call, any time of the day or night 116 123.
The NCT website offers information and a Shared Experiences support line.
Search Mumsnet Talk for others' experiences of coping after stillbirth.
Focus on one day at a time. The pain will lessen time and you will find a way out of this despairing place. Be patient with yourself. Consider confiding how you are feeling with someone you feel emotionally close to other than your partner, perhaps a good friend.You need someone to lean on. If not the Samaritans are there for you, ready to listen. You can also post on the MN Bereavement or Miscarriage/pregnancy loss forums listed under Body and Soul.