Stubborn MIL

[MissBax]

This is just a rant -
My MIL is SO controlling! I think it's actually bordering on a disorder to be honest. My OH is one of 4 siblings, all who have just gone along with her plans for their whole lives, as has her DH. Thats fine and I totally understand that what works best for their family is that, so fine.
But if they're making plans with me, my parents and siblings it is ALWAYS at her final say. We suggest somewhere and it's "oh could we not JUST do it THIS way". My family are very flexible so generally just go along with it, but it bugs me so much.
If we have plans to meet at a certain time, she will sometimes just turn up late because that suits her better. And I don't mean 10-15 mins late, I'm talking 1-1.5 hours late at times!
When arranging anything - meals, days out, holidays, it ALWAYS comes down to "well let's just check first with Kate (not her real name". As if her say is the most important.
My OH recognises that it's not on and does his best to try and mediate between everyone, but even he has become very sick and tired of it recently.
We were meant to visit them at the weekend - we could only do Sunday morning. This was all set and planned and was fine. Then on Sunday morning Kate texts OH - "very busy with work all day till 5pm. Come after then" - no checking if it's ok or if that suited us - just telling us what to do. He replied - "early start in the morning so would really much rather stick to original plan" - response - "sorry very busy till after 5, so you can come round then instead". I was pretty peeved by this point and said if we can't agree to just rearrange. OH said this and she took the hump and didn't reply after that.
We are now meeting tomorrow evening instead but of course it's all down to what will suit her best, nevermind that me and OH have a lot going on at the mo (both work, studying full time, and sorting thing for baby's arrival in a few months).
Arghhh sorry just had to rant!!!
Also - OH parents NEVER come to us - it is always us visiting them!!!

Anyone else just need to rant about the same!? 😂

Tell your dh how proud of him you would be if HE was the one to stand up to her from now on. .

Stop changing arrangements for starters. .. And let her sulk. . She isn't 12.

Just stop giving in. If she changes the plans, don't see her. Provide some negative consequences to her fucking everyone about.

Invite them to your house. If she says no then don't see her.

People have to give in to this sort of controlling behaviour. Start saying no.

MissBax,

re your comment:-
"My MIL is SO controlling! I think it's actually bordering on a disorder to be honest. My OH is one of 4 siblings, all who have just gone along with her plans for their whole lives, as has her DH. Thats fine and I totally understand that what works best for their family is that, so fine".

No that is not fine at all, it works only for your MIL (to preserve her own inflated sense of importance) and her family of origin have gone along with her out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. Her behaviour within her dysfunctional family has simply been rewarded.
She may well indeed have some form of untreated and untreatable personality disorder.

You do not mention FIL in all this; is he still around?

Controlling behaviour is at its heart abusive behaviour; its about power and control. You likely come from an emotionally healthy family of origin; your DH clearly was not so lucky and has had an overbearing matriarch of a mother for a parent.

Where are your own boundaries here with regards to MIL; you are allowing yourself to be trampled on as well. Your DH is well and truly mired in his own fear, obligation and guilt and he is a problem too because he cannot stand up for his own self in his own right. He may not be able to stand up for you either, his own inertia simply hurts him as well as you.

Her invitation is not so much that as a summons for you to attend when she deigns to see you.

Both of you need to put on a united front at the very least now or this will keep on happening indefinitely. Start saying no and put firm and consistent boundaries in place in any dealings with her. I would also look into lowering all levels of contact with her. She won't like it but you will have peace of mind instead. Stop giving her so much power over you both. Look at it this way too; you would not have put up with this from a friend. His mother is no different.

I would also keep your as yet unborn child well away from your MIL as well; she was not a good parent to your DH and is a toxic person to be at all around now.

Ranting is all well and good but it won't help you feel better in the long run. Do read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward so you further understand the whole rotten dynamics being played out here.

Thanks Atilla - yes I do believe it is bordering on a personality disorder to be honest, I've said that for a while. It's certainly not typical or healthy behaviour.
When I bring it up to OH he says "well it's just how we are" and doesn't seem to phased by it, it's only more recently when I've been assertive that he's starting to see how odd it really is.
My poor FIL - I get on with him so well, he's such a lovely man but unfortunately he adores MIL and the feelings just aren't reciprocated. I think she neglects him at best, emotionally abuses him at worst.
She also financially bribes the family - is very generous with money and pays for meals out / holidays etc, on her terms of course.
She has also supported OH financially whilst he's returned to education. So I know that he feels that he can't say anything because of this. I have explained that she can't buy his affection and that she doesn't have a right to control him because she helps him out in a monetary way.
I've also said that once the baby is here if she doesn't become more flexible to fit in with us then she'll be missing out on a lot of granddaughter time as I'm not getting in the car with a newborn anytime she wants to see her.
I personally limit contact with her anyway and always go directly to FIL when making plans, but his answer is always "will have to check with Kate".

My MIL used to dictate what we done when but in a way that it seemed like she was asking but if you said no she had a strop. I went along with it for years then had a disagreement with her which she was a total cow to me while 7 months pregnant over nothing started telling me how they do things in 'her' family like it was law so I flipped. The upshot was me stopping doing stuff that didn't suit she made a huge deal but I stuck it out and now she's realised seeing dp and her grandchildren is much easier when she doesn't piss me off.

You need a standard answer for the constant rearrangements.

First response: That won't work for us, can we stick to the original arrangement?

Second response (assuming you just get a repeated instruction as described above): Not sure if you received my previous message. That won't work for us. Let's make it another time if the original plan isn't possible.

Then leave her to make fresh plans. Send NOTHING but these responses, ad infinitum. Don't negotiate, explain or discuss. Just "doesn't work for us" and "didn't you get the message? doesn't work for us". You have to be relentless!

Miss Bax

Was not surprised to read about FIL's role here at all; such weak men are really bystanders who act out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. I would not entirely let him off the hook here because he is really her hatchet man too. He has failed to protect his now adult children from his wife's malign influences which also involve money. Disordered of thinking people like his wife do use money and gifts as control; such are always loaded with obligation and never ever given altruistically.

I would look up narcissistic personality disorder in relation to your MIL and see how much of that fits in with your experiences of her to date. This is not going to be a situation that at all will improve for you particularly if you do not present a united front and have firm and consistent boundaries. The "that will not work for us" type responses are good ones; repeat as and when necessary. You do not have to JADE: i.e. justify, argue, defend or explain further.

What you owe yourself comes first. In a conflict between what you owe someone else and what you owe yourself, you must come first. Nobody has the right to demand that you justify, argue, defend or explain yourself, no matter what they may believe. Only you have the right to decide if any of those things are appropriate to the situation and if you decide it is, then it nobody’s decision but yours to decide what and how much you say.

Infact I think its going to be nigh on impossible for your man to set boundaries with his mother purely and simply because he has been conditioned by her not to have any. She comes first you see and they've all been trained (with the help of her own H) to put her first with their own needs stone last.

She won't like you setting boundaries and will actively I think rail against them with the help of her own H who will act as her hatchet man here. You may subsequently hear from FIL about her being really "upset", a previously unknown health scare or being sent to hospital for "tests"; people like your MIL can and do use such things to further control. But you still need to have your own line in the sand here all the same.

You have GOT to stop giving in to her or this will never, ever change. When she changed times for Sunday, you should have said no, sorry, but that doesn't work for us.

Yes, you need to dig in your heels :)

And, even though I like MissBax, I also think 'Let'sNotCheckWithKate' has a good ring to it

I agree that if her change of plans doesn't work for you, just say that or have DH tell her.

She'll soon find out she misses out on time with you and the new DGD if she carries on like this.

Don't cave in.

So interesting to read this from the other side. I'm a MIL with a controlling DIL and a life - who changes everything at last min - trying so hard to help - but suddenly gets message can I change it to an hour later.

Wow thanks for all the replies everyone - just been out for the evening but really appreciate all the comments.
Attila - I'd never heard the JADE acronym before but that really resonates with me - thank you! I will definitely check myself against that in future when I feel like I'm giving in. OH is known for being a people pleaser, and as much as I think it comes from the right place, it is something I've told him he should try and control because he'll often just go along with her (and other people) and ends up doing things he doesn't want to. It's not good for his own self esteem and won't be a good characteristic to pass onto our daughter.
I'd never thought of how FIL has actually got a lot to answer for too - I'd always felt sorry for him but when you look at it like that he is to blame for his children being so weak when it comes to alot of things!
How can I make OH aware of it without it looking like a character assassination of his DM? As you can imagine he finds it hard to take criticism about her.
Fizzy - ha!! If I decide to name change anytime soon I'll be sure to use that name 😉
lazy - sorry to hear you're going through the same but the other way round! Hopefully some of the suggestions on here will help in your situation too?
hercules - you're right, I will just stick to my guns with my replies. It's more OH and his siblings that cave in and then I'm left to look like the awkward one!

Thanks MissBax I try to stick to the principle of being child centric. If I fall out with the DGS mum it won't benefit him or our family long term. She is always tricky but they are having a hard time at the moment so I'm just trying to be supportive but it's stressful when you're told to return a one year old at 6pm and get messaged at 4:30pm saying "come now!" My DH has been at home this week which has helped and he is better at saying "I'll get there as soon as I can".... today I've set aside the whole day (as booked) and late last night was told it's only this afternoon. Another day we walked a long way to a park, were just about to enter when she texted "come back now". I'll try to do the same as my DH. Good luck in your situation. Sorry didn't mean to hijack. Good to rant!

I get along very well with my PILs and have known them for a long time.

In the early days I used to give in to keep my MIL (and by extension my FIL and DH) happy. I'm pretty flexible and in those days changing arrangements or everything having to be MIL's way didn't raise much more than a mild irritation.

And then we had kids.

And everything changed.

Because suddenly it really did matter to me how our lives were arranged. So overnight I had to deal with a newborn and a power struggle.

I won the power struggle obviously but I really, really wish that I'd put down my foot earlier on our relationship.

Your partner isn't a 'people pleaser.'

He's someone who likes to please himself and doesn't care if it pisses you off.

Your main problem is not your partners mother - it's your partner who wants you to change arrangements to suit him and his family. You really need to deal with this now before baby comes along.

C0RAL - thanks for your summing up of my OH on one post but he really is a people pleaser. It's nothing to do with his mum - he does it with me, with work colleagues and with friends. He finds it very hard to say no to people asking him favours etc, it comes from low self esteem and he worries too much about what people will think if he "let's them down". Eve though it's not letting them down, it's literally just saying he can't do something.
He DOESN'T want me to change my arrangements to suit his family - as I said above - and he gets very stressed by his mums behaviour too. But he just finds any kind of confrontation uncomfortable.
Thanks for your input though :) this is for you -

Miss Bax,

Would your man be at all willing now to talk to someone about his mother and in turn his people pleasing tendencies?. Both are serious problems and are linked. He really does have a big target over his head to be taken advantage of, his mother is really the root cause of his people pleasing.

Is he a serial apologist as well?

Attila - yes, he has had counselling in he past (separate issue), regarding self esteem and he is getting -marginally- better at standing up for himself, but he does have a long way to come.
It's a shame cos he's the most lovely, kind person, but it's definitely something that holds him back alot.
He is a serial apologist - he will apologise to people if he's not seen them in a while - even though they won't have made any effort to see him in the same time frame. I'm always saying to him he has nothing to apologise for and if anything will make people feel more uncomfortable than anything else. When it's just the two of us he's so laid back and relaxed and I get to see that wonderful side of him, but noone else does!