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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is my partner passive aggressive , depressed or just doesn't care?

41 replies

EdithBond · 30/05/2017 22:09

I've never posted on here before but desperate and really hope someone can help.

My partner of 18 years (father of my 3 kids) has been making me miserable for years. Two years ago I went to my GP for help with depression and had 12 x CBT, conclusion of which was couples' counselling. Partner said he'd only attend if it helped me as he didn't need counselling. The couples counsellor was awful and it made me very distressed, so I decided not to carry on. My partner's self-reporting concluded that he was fine.

He won't talk to me about anything important (feelings, finances, holidays, birthdays, Xmas etc.). He doesn't make any plans. He's got us into serious financial problems and won't talk about or address it. I have to start every serious conversation. His usual response is silence or he says he doesn't understand, even when I've patiently explained how I feel and the logic for something. Even if I think we've got somewhere, he then takes no action.

When I was depressed he made me food and saw to the kids but gave me no reassurance or encouragement to feel better, which would have helped enormously. The house got in a mess and I've spent the past 2 years trying to get things sorted out. He's never tried to help, even when asked, or said 'well done' when I've worked hard to get things back to rights. He doesn't seem to notice.

He's constantly forgetting things, even when I've reminded him numerous times. I've suggested ways to make sure he remembers (lists, notebooks, chalkboard for shopping) but he won't use them. I have shelves and knobs for the kitchen units which have sat there for years (in his eyeline) without him fitting them. I do most things myself but feel quite anxious having to remember everything myself.

He's in the same job he had when I met him. I've had several promotions in between having the kids. We're really struggling financially (still renting a home) but, despite my asking on numerous occasions, he's applied for one job (which he was unlikely to get) in 18 years. When I ask him why he doesn't want to earn more to support the kids, he says we'll have to cut back on spending. I've paid for every family holiday we've had from my own savings, which are now totally used up. I didn't want to touch the savings, which he knows, but he's never offered to pay me back.

He has no hobbies, sees no friends, never goes out. He's always at home. He doesn't have a close relationship with his parents or sibling. I've asked if they could help by calling him more often, but I've had no response. They say he knows where they are if he needs them.

In Jan, I told him it was over and he'd have to move out (even though I can't afford the rent on my own). He said he had nowhere to go and couldn't afford to rent a place on his own. Since then, he's slept downstairs. He gets the sofa-bed out as soon as the kids are in bed (9pm) and listens to the radio. This has gone on for 6 months.

Every time I try to talk to him, he makes me get angry because he says he can't understand what the problem is. He often uses a whiny voice. He says the things that bother me wouldn't bother him and I'm always finding fault with him or that nothing's good enough. But I'm actually very laid back and by no means a perfectionist.

I feel so lonely and I really have felt at times like I'm losing my mind. He says he can't understand why I get angry and shout all the time. I'm fine when I'm at work or with friends. I have a very demanding job that people half my age struggle to cope with. Even when I had very bad depression, I only took a couple of weeks off work.

My partner is an attentive father and comes across to others as a nice man. So I'd be the homewrecker from his and kids point of view, not to mention family and friends, if I leave. I'd struggle to cope with that emotionally.

I just don't know what to do. My own parents had a very bitter divorce (never spoke to each other again), which badly affected me. I don't want to put my kids through separated parents. Apart from the emotional fall-out, If I move out with the kids, then I'd barely be able to rent a one bed flat, so it would be a nightmare and eldest has GCSEs next year.

I've asked him to see the GP. He's reluctantly agree but says he doesn't know what he'd say. Our GP's massively over-stretched so I'm not sure it'll result in anything.

I've recently stumbled across threads on here about passive aggressive partners - and suddenly felt sane. Any thoughts gratefully received.

OP posts:
AnniesShop · 01/06/2017 11:06

What @AttilaTheMeercat posted + 100 times.

EdithBond · 03/06/2017 11:16

I'm overwhelmed that so many people have taken the time to reply. Thank you all so much. I've never felt so supported by sisterliness. I've been feeling so alone. Attila - there is lots of truth in what you say, especially that he just wants me to facilitate everything for him. My eldest son says that his dad acts like I'm his mum and he's afraid of me. I feel more like his manager, or something. If I go on enough about what needs to be done he does 'help out'. Also, the similarities between my mum and partner are quite disturbing - neither takes any responsibility for their actions. I remember as a teenager many times sitting calmly trying to explain to my mum how she'd hurt me and she'd say 'I can't seem to help it' or 'I don't know what comes over me'. Rosabug - thanks so much for the link. I've wept at how accurate lots of the article is. Although my partner is certainly not consciously malicious - he doesn't have a devious bone in his body and doesn't think that deeply; not a quietly seething type. He's just dopey to be quite frank. I think I'd almost prefer deliberate behaviour. The thoughtlessness and lack of understanding (lack of emotional intelligence, in fact) is worst. The bit in the article that most struck a cord is 'he wants you to think he doesn’t depend on you, but he binds himself closer than he cares to admit'. He's deliberately not close to anyone, apart from the children. I've told him many times that it feels like he's smoothering me by lurking about and clinging on with nothing positive or constructive to offer. Like my mum, if I'm happy, he's happy and thinks everything's fine. But when I'm unhappy, he doesn't know what to do. I'm not one to give up easily. I'm very responsible, loyal and determined. I really want to make things work for all of us. So it's surprised me how many of you have said I must get out. I'd dearly love him to get help to understand his behaviour and attempt to address it. But I feel the years ticking by and I'm just more and more miserable. That isn't me. I love life, people, new experiences. A couple of good friends of mine (vibrant, kind and talented people) have died in the last couple of years. People who lived their lives to the full - one an amazing musician, who died in November. I'm still struggling with the grief but it's been a bit of a catalyst that I must choose to be happy and not spend anymore time in such a destructive relationship.

OP posts:
aginghippy · 03/06/2017 18:48

Sorry to hear about your friends Edith Flowers
Very true that grief can be a catalyst for change. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

xyz2352 · 04/06/2017 14:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TarquinsMama · 04/06/2017 15:22

xyz2352 why do you behave in this way?

another20 · 04/06/2017 23:08

Found this:

Characteristics of Passive-Aggression

Because you can’t have an honest, direct conversation with a passive-aggressive partner, nothing ever gets resolved. They say yes, and then their behavior screams NO. They try to sabotage your wants, needs, and plans using a variety of tactics. We all engage in some of these behaviors some of the time, but when there’s a pervasive pattern of multiple symptoms, it’s likely that you’re dealing with passive-aggression.

Denial: Like all codependents, they’re in denial of the impact of their behavior. This is why they blame others, unaware of the problems they’re causing. They refuse to take responsibility for anything, and distort reality, rationalize, blame, make excuses, minimize, deny, or flat out lie about their behavior or the promises or agreements they’ve made.

Forgetting: Rather than say no or address their anger, they forget your birthday or the plans you’ve discussed, or forget to put gas in the car, pickup your prescription, or fix the leaky toilet. You end up feeling hurt and angry.

Procrastinating: They’re avoidant and don’t like schedules or deadlines. It’s another form of rebellion, so they delay and delay with endless excuses. They don’t follow through on responsibilities, promises, or agreements. If they’re unemployed, they drag their feet looking for work. You may do more job-searching on their behalf than they do.

Obstructing: This is another nonverbal form of saying NO. When you try to decide on where or when to go on vacation, pick out an apartment, or make plans, they find fault with each suggestion and won’t offer any of their own.

Ambiguity: They hate to take a stand. They don’t say what they want or mean. However, their behavior tells the truth, which is usually NO. This way they retain control and blame you for being controlling. As you might expect, negotiating agreements, such as in a divorce or child visitation plan, is exasperating. In addition to procrastinating, they avoid being pinned down. They may insist on “reasonable visitation,” and label your attempts to specify a predictable plan as controlling. Don’t be fooled. This only postpones negotiation when repetitive arguments can occur over every exchange of the children. Alternatively, they might agree to terms, but not abide by them. You can expect to be back in court.

Never angry: They don’t express their anger openly. In childhood, they may have been punished or scolded for showing anger, or were never permitted to object. Their only outlet is passive-aggressive, oppositional behavior.

Incompetency: When they finally do what you ask, you likely have to redo it. If they make a repair, it might not last or you’ll have to clean the mess they made. If they’re helping with house cleaning, their inefficiency may drive you to do it yourself. At work, they make careless errors.

Lateness: Chronic lateness is a half-hearted way of saying NO. They agree to a time, but show up late. You’re dressed-up, waiting to go out, and they’re “stuck at the office,” on the Internet, or watching the game and not ready. Lateness at work or delivering assignments is a self-sabotaging form of rebellion that can get them dismissed.

Negativity: Their personality may include pouting or acting sullen, stubborn, or argumentative. They feel misunderstood and unappreciated and scorn and criticize authority. They frequently complain and envy and resent those more fortunate.

Playing the Victim: The problem is always someone else’s fault. Their denial, shame, and lack of responsibility cause them to play the victim and blame others. You or their boss become the controlling, demanding one. They always have an excuse, but it’s their own self-destructive behaviors that cause them problems.

Dependency: While fearing domination, they’re dependent, nonassertive, indecisive, and unsure of themselves. They’re unaware of their dependency and fight it whenever they can. Their obstructionism is a pseudo attempt at independence. They don’t leave, but withdraw or withhold intimacy instead. An autonomous person has healthy self-esteem, is assertive, and can take a stand and keep commitments. Not so for someone passive-aggressive. Their behavior is designed to avoid responsibility for themselves and family, and sometimes they depend unfairly on their partner for support.

Withholding: Withholding communication is another form of expressing anger and asserting power passively. They may walk away, refusing to talk things over, or play the victim and say, “You’re always right,” shutting down the discussion. They’re unable to articulate what they want, feel, or need. Instead, they retain their power using the silent treatment or withholding material/financial support, affection, or sex. This undermines intimacy as a way to fight against their dependency.

There are a myriad of other things they might do, like slamming doors, giving away something of yours, or offering you dessert that you’re allergic to or when you’re dieting.

another20 · 04/06/2017 23:10

Whoops missed the most important bit...

What You Can Do

Because a passive-aggressive person is indirect, it may be hard to recognize what’s going on, but it’s essential that you recognize whom you’re dealing with. Look for a pervasive pattern of several of the above symptom, and monitor your feelings. You may feel angry, confused, or powerless when trying to get cooperation. If this is a common pattern, you’re likely dealing with passive-aggression.

It’s important not to react. When you nag, scold, or get angry, you escalate conflict and give your partner more excuses and ammunition to deny responsibility. Not only that, you step into the role of parent – the very one your partner is rebelling against. Don’t be vague, drop hints, blame, or allow yourself to pay-back in kind.

Neither be passive, nor aggressive. Instead, be assertive. It’s far better to address noncompliance and problems in the relationship directly. Frame it in terms of “We have a problem,” not “You are the problem,” which is shaming. Don’t blame or judge your partner, but describe the behavior you don’t like, how it affects you and the relationship, and what you want. If you let your partner come up with a solution to a problem, there’s a better chance of resolution.

When you go along with your partner’s tactics or take on his or her responsibilities, you enable and encourage more passive-aggressive behavior. It would be similar to nagging your child, but allowing the youngster not to do his or her chores. This takes practice and requires being assertive. Be prepared to set boundaries with consequences. See my blog, “10 Reasons Why Boundaries Don’t Work.” For suggestions on dealing with passive-aggression, write me at [email protected] for “12 Strategies for Handling Manipulators.” Practice the tools in How to Speak Your Mind- Become Assertive and Set Limits.

© Darlene Lancer, 2015, 2016

Lunagirl · 04/06/2017 23:53

I think OP that our partners are one and the same. I can so relate to your thread, so many similarities. I've ended it. Still living together (he can legally be here for another 6 months - I'm in hell) and two young children. I reached the end if my tether. They dont change. I tried the whole "I think you're depressed" (surely he must have been to be the way he was). He's on antidepressants but nope, he's just bone idle and lazy and very much poor me. I won't take his bullshit anymore. You shouldn't either, you deserve better.

Offred · 05/06/2017 00:15

It really doesn't matter what label you give it. You have been explaining to him why this marriage doesn't work for years and he hasn't made any effort.

You should just leave him.

EdithBond · 13/06/2017 21:01

Another20 - thank you so, so much for sharing that information. I really appreciate it. Once again, I'm overwhelmed by the trouble people have taken to help when you don't know me. I've Googled passive aggressive but didn't come across this. It's SO accurate - I could have written it myself! In terms of the 'what you can do', while I do nag a lot and get very frustrated and angry/aggressive with him, I've also spent hours of my life over at least 7 years sitting down calmly (at my instigation, of course) explaining what the problem is. It's very hard to remain calm, because he'll deny he behaves that way, says he doesn't understand or that he's always been like that or really just says nothing while I talk. When we do get somewhere and I feel a bit more positive that things will change, nothing ever does, so I think he starts to agree with me and commits to doing something about it just to get the conversation over. But that really is what drives me crazy. Sometimes I wonder if he's brain-damaged or just really thick. But he's an intellectually bright person. I think he's emotionally stupid. He's not even able to say 'bugger off, you're talking rubbish, I don't agree with you and don't see any need to do anything about it'. That, I could handle. Since I've told him in January it's over, it's like he's gone on strike. He's even more withdrawn, does even less to try to talk or sort anything out. I feel he's just waiting for me to make him go or leave myself. It makes me laugh - even when I've said it's over, I have to actually make it happen.

Lunagirl - I'm so sorry to hear this is happening to you. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It is such hell and enough to make you feel totally insane. Perhaps we could give each other a bit of support. That would help me enormously as I don't have family to talk to and don't like bothering my friends with it all - they know my partner well and I think they feel uncomfortable when I talk about it - like I'm moaning about him and they feel like they're joining in even if they just listen. I understand - if my partner weren't like this, I'd never believe how awful it can be. I'd have to take my children out of school if I'm the one to leave as, although in theory he would probably be required to pay me maintenance for the children, we're struggling financially living together - so he could never afford to pay his own rent (even a room in a shared house) and give me money too. And I can't afford a place for me and the children on my own unless it's a one-bed, which would be a nightmare for my eldest, who's nearly 16. But I'll double-check if I'm entitled to housing allowance - I think I earn just above the threshold, though. That's why I've put up with it for so long - I can't seem to find a practical way out that won't be much, much worse for the children (and me - sleeping on a sofabed in the living room). But I'm very glad that you can see some light at the end of the tunnel, Lunagirl, even though it must be very hard in the meantime.

Thank you all so much for this. I'm so glad I posted on here. I realise now - because the advice has been almost unanimous - that I mustn't hope that things can get better - or keep trying to find solutions. I must just wait it out while trying to improve my chances of making a new home for me and the kids. In hindsight, I shouldn't have had kids, like my sibling - as putting your kids through a failed relationship when you've been through it yourself and know how it feels is just unbearable. That's why I did my best not to give up easily.

OP posts:
another20 · 02/07/2017 21:13

How are things?

EdithBond · 10/07/2017 21:20

I feel bad coming back on here again when I haven't escaped this situation. I don't want to seem like someone who moans but doesn't do anything about it. I'm just so exhausted - physically, mentally, psychologically. I'm really upset this evening. My depression's very bad.

I took the kids away camping this last weekend to try to get away from my partner and the entire situation - and because it's my 50th birthday. There were things I needed to do for the kids going on end of term trips etc. I'd been fretting about how I was going to do it all. My partner offered to do them over the weekend.

He didn't say anything when I got back last night, so I had to ask him this evening if he'd done them. He said he forgot. When I got upset and said it causes me stress if he assures me he'll do things but doesn't, and I'm trying to avoid stress to cope with my depression, he said everything makes me stressed. Then he said the things can be done this week.

I now have 5 days before my son has to be packed for his trip and I'm working all week. I don't know how I'll do it but I'm sure I'll find a way. What I'm most upset about is that my partner didn't seem at all concerned he'd forgotten. He didn't acknowledge that if I hadn't asked him, he'd NEVER have remembered or said a thing and I'd have done it myself. He just rolled his eyes to his imaginary friend about the 'endless shouting'.

I know some of you reading this might think I'm overly uptight and perhaps my partner is just more relaxed. But I'm really not like that - I'm incredibly laid back and tolerant. It's just like most people, I like to organise things so that everything runs smoothly, rather than run round like a headless chicken at the last minute. I'm also trying to set an example for the children about being organised.

I also know this sounds petty on the face of it. First World problems. No one's ill. We'll muddle through and things will get done. But this is one more time that I thought I could rely on my partner, he's let me down and doesn't understand why I'm upset.

I feel so unloved and alone. It was hard work taking the kids camping on my own but we had a lovely time and now the day after I'm back I feel flattened. My partner keeps saying he needs to change. But how can I believe him when he behaves like this? I feel like I've gone insane because he just doesn't understand there's a problem.

Can anyone suggest how I speak to him (without shouting, I know) so that he understands. I've just no one to talk to about this and feeling really isolated.

OP posts:
user1480099089 · 10/07/2017 21:22

Poor you I hope that things work out for you. Sending hugs.

another20 · 11/07/2017 11:43

He is treating you with contempt.
He is taking pleasure in your distress.
He did nt forget anything.
This is deliberate - to punish you and to make you crazy.
He wont punch you physically or raise his voice but he will destroy you slowly and erode your soul.

Yes you are "unloved and alone" - by him only.

Please dont exert another ounce of your limited emotional and physical energy on him.

He is abusive in a passive aggressive way - he gets you to express all his anger. He is making you ill. When he completes his task (when you have a breakdown) where will your children be then?

Please hold on to the lovely times you had with you children. Please get this man out of your home before you implode. Please ask friends and family to support you. Take simple actions to make this happen. He has not changed to date, he is not listening to you. He needs a shock and you and your kids need a release from this. There comes a point when staying together for the children is irresponsible - I think you have passed this point.

another20 · 12/07/2017 14:46

Also don't allow yourself to believe that it is your fault that the family separates.

He is the one who has made the family dysfunctional - you are the one who has tried, and tried, and tried, to work it out for far too long (to the detriment of your own health).

You are the one being forced to call time so that your children can live in a peaceful home with at least one happy functional parent. You should be proud of that.

It is better to from a broken home than to be in a broken home.

I have lived this life and the grinding frustration, exasperation and exhaustion of living with someone quietly undermining, sabotaging, overloading you at every turn leads to severe depression. I escalated to become a hideous screaming woman as I was never heard. My children witnessed that. I am really sorry that they knew me as the exhausted, angry and depressed mother. I got him out and the burden lifted. Our home became peaceful, well organised and calm instantly.

Do not wait another day - this negativity is toxic to your children everyday.

WotcherHarry · 13/07/2017 09:36

I literally could have written the majority of your posts, edith. Thinking of you and I'll be watching this thread with interest as the stories of ex H digging his heels into the house sounds frightening but realistic here...

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