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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Boundaries and my mother

45 replies

CesareBorgiasUnicornMask · 28/05/2017 15:15

The backstory would fill about 14 volumes, so apologies if I drip feed a bit but there is simply no way I can get all the information into one post. The problem essentially boils down to the following:

My mother is lonely, bored, depressed and miserable. Her cure for the above is to want to see me and DS as often as humanly possible. She lives a 45 minute drive away, we see her usually at least once a week but sometimes it might go a fortnight if we're particularly busy. I wouldn't mind seeing her more than this but she is relentlessly negative about EVERYTHING. If she's had a meal with friends/ gone on holiday/ been shopping and you ask how it was all you get is a litany of complaints. She is clinically depressed, and acknowledges this, but refuses to take antidepressants as she'd rather be 'authentically herself' (this is a dig at me as I take anti-depressants after suffering PND with DS). She also constantly wants to take over with DS and when I occasionally say things like 'please don't put the TV on now, he's going to bed in half an hour' or 'could you save that chocolate bar for after he's had lunch' she throws massive strips, cries etc. She can also be quite nasty to me personally, when she's in a bad mood, to the point I used to self harm because of how she made me feel. On the other side she can also be amazing company, and very kind when she wants to be. I try to be as understanding as I can but essentially I can't relax around her, and feel like nothing I do can ever be enough to actually make her happy, so have withdrawn a lot over the last few years in order to maintain my sanity.

I used to phone her every day because of horrendous guilt trips if I didn't, but once I had DS and simply couldn't afford to spend an hour or more on the phone each evening, I spent ages trying to cut the calls short and finally settled for calling about every 3 days instead. DS is nearly 3 and the guilt trips about this have only just (mostly) stopped.

Now I'm expecting DC2 in July and am on maternity leave, and she literally won't leave me alone. We have just got back from a four day beach trip with her and MIL, where she behaved horrendously, sulking every time she didn't get her own way, moaning constantly about the hotel, one-upping MIL and deliberately rubbing her nose in the fact that she's not as 'posh' or educated as DM. It's been excruciatingly embarrassing, and I'm fuming tbh, as is DH, and therefore apart from a quick text last night to say we were home ok (after she'd called DH and I three times each) I have been blanking her texts (for a whole 24 hours Hmm) as I just wanted some headspace to decide whether to try to tackle her about her behaviour or just do my usual tactic of creating space until I can cope again.

DH is working today and I was up a lot of the night with DS, so I asked FIL if he'd mind coming and taking him out for an hour to let me either sleep or do some housework depending on energy levels, and just as he was getting DS sorted to go, my mother turned up, as apparently she was 'worried' about me. She has a convenient theory that pregnant women shouldn't be alone at all after about 7 months, and therefore she should be round every bloody day while DH is at work. I looked less than thrilled to see her, and said FIL was about to take DS so I could sleep. I also said please could she not come round without at least texting first (have asked this before - don't generally mind random callers but I need to be psyched up to deal with her) and she got all teary and has gone off in a huff, saying I'm 'unnatural' for wanting to be on my own and for asking FIL (lives ten mins away, hasn't seen DS for a fortnight, happy to take him to park on his own) to help with DS instead of her (45 mins away, been with DS most of this week, just wants to talk at me).

She's going to drive me insane if she keeps this up but there is literally no way to get through to her without being horrible. She doesn't pick up on or chooses to ignore things like 'I've got a lot to get on with today' that most people would take as 'please don't come over.'

I also feel like I should try again to get her to go to the doctor about her mental health -even MIL who doesn't know her that well came and talked to me about it after spending two days in her company. But she doesn't listen to me about anything, and I just feel at the end of my tether and it sounds terrible but am actually ceasing to care Blush. Her parents died ten years ago and then my father buggered off, so it's not like she hasn't had shit to deal with, but she's never made an effort to seek help in any way. I am her coping strategy and her emotional punchbag, and I'm fucking sick of it. I'm exhausted and can't believe I've got to spend what was meant to be a lovely restful few weeks of maternity leave, spending time with DS and DH and getting ready for the baby, attempting to erect and maintain barriers to stop her making everything bloody miserable. It's just exhausting and I don't know what to do. Everyone else thinks she's bloody wonderful and I'm an evil daughter for not seeing her more- she makes it sound like I ignore her for months at a time. On holiday MIL had a word with DH saying we should make an effort to see DM more as she's feeling lonely and cut out of our lives, and DH had to tell her we see DM about twice as much as we see her! She couldn't believe it as apparently DM had been making it sound like she goes weeks and weeks with no contact Confused.

OP posts:
Absofrigginlootly · 28/05/2017 17:28

She has trained you since birth to serve her needs like Attila says. She hasn't empowered you with the skills to have a reasonable conversation with her because she doesn't really want an equal/adult relationship with you. I'm not saying that conscious on her part, it's just the nature of narcissists

Absofrigginlootly · 28/05/2017 17:30

X post!

I will say though that I don't always think it has to be all or nothing (enmeshed or NC). There is a middle ground of lower contact with these people. It's certainly not easy but it is possible

wobblywonderwoman · 28/05/2017 17:36

Following. Really op, I sympathise and gave received advice from attila in the past xxx

Ivory200 · 28/05/2017 17:45

Oh poor you OP, I can really feel your pain, my (late) DM was like this but with bells on. In the end, I realised that I couldn't help her or change her, but I could change how I responded to and dealt with her. My strategy was to call her at a time which suited me, armed with a few bits of news about the kids, garden etc., and talk non stop so she couldn't start her moaning. I set a (mental) timer for about 15/20 mins, then would say something like - must go, school run/someone at door/have appointment etc. I never visited her without my DH as buffet, and made sure never to be left alone with her. It was hard at first, but got easier, and eventually just became routine. Good luck my dear! You can help yourself with this!

EssentialHummus · 28/05/2017 17:56

You're never going to "win" with this situation - she's going to either get her own way, which will ruin your mental health, or she's going to play the martyr to everyone else about what an ungrateful, awful daughter you are and so mean when all she wants to do is help and support you.

Exactly this. You need to start doing what suits you and your family, even if she responds by stropping. Would you tolerate strops from your DC? No? How about your friends? No? This woman doesn't get a special dispensation because she's your mother.

CesareBorgiasUnicornMask · 28/05/2017 18:10

Thank you everyone. You're basically all saying what DH has been saying for a while. I know what I need to do in theory but it's so hard to put into practice.

For pp that asked DSis has managed to extricate herself a bit more, mostly because she lives further away, and is (always has been) far more immune to guilt trips than I am. They have a difficult relationship partly because DSis is gay, which mum is now apparently 'fine' about but initially seemed to take as a personal affront Hmm, and has recently changed her name to something gender-neutral, which again mum has taken very personally.

She triangulates and moans about us to each other - I can guarantee that after I sent her away today she'll have called DSis for a moan - but we both largely know what she's like. One thing I do find very difficult is how impossible she makes it for DSis and I to see each other without her being involved. We've only managed it a handful of times since we both left home, and even then she often tries to prevent it if she gets wind of it. I once presented a paper at a conference near DSis's uni and stayed with her in her halls - DM turned up to 'surprise' us both Hmm.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 28/05/2017 18:27

Oh dear your Mum is even worse than I first thought!

Do you and DSiS keep touch regularly by phone etc? I would, you need a solid friendship to help you survive this.

I suspect your Dad was actually far more unhappy than you want to believe - the affair was probably an escape and he couldn't handle the guilt etc. Sort of flight or fight rather than stay and try and remain peace maker. Does make it ok but he was probably ground down etc.

friedegs · 28/05/2017 18:31

Oh I am sorry to read this. We have very similar situations - including DF who left for OW & an horrific divorce that I still forced to relive through her rantings. Sadly I get why he left. He doesn't see us any more. I am currently very minimum contact - purely for the sake of DC who enjoy seeing her. Be prepared for her to rage at your boundaries. Mine is still livid from Christmas...horrendous stressful situation to be in.

friedegs · 28/05/2017 18:55

Love your name BTW.

CouldntMakeThisShitUp · 28/05/2017 19:28

One thing I do find very difficult is how impossible she makes it for DSis and I to see each other without her being involved

Seriously? Hmm
You both live independent lives away from the family home so i don't get why it's 'impossible' for either of you to meet up without her.

You need to stop telling her stuff about your life and daily routine - stop supplying her with ammunition.
Don't tell her that you're meeting up with your dsis if you know she will sabotage it.

Absofrigginlootly · 28/05/2017 21:34

Classic narcissistic triangulation - narcissists always make themselves central to plans, situations etc and it's very common for narcissistic mothers to sabotage sibling relationships (usually through golden child/scapegoat roles but also through triangulation).

The above poster is right. You need to stop telling her your plans and have a relationship with your sister outside of any relationship with your DM

Siwdmae · 28/05/2017 23:26

Build your relationship with your sister. There is no need for your do to know that you are in contact with her and what your plans are. No need for her to know you're seeing each other. Do not tell her anything.

If your dm turns up at your house without warning, tell her it's not a good time. From what you're saying, OP, you basically let her get away with anything. You've trained her to think it's ok to walk all over you. Unfortunately, it's therefore up to you to tell her it's not a good time/to leave/to stop being a royal pain in the arse.

Fishface77 · 28/05/2017 23:35

She's your mother but you owe her nothing.
You do however owe yourself, DH and DC a mentally and physically strong self, wife and mother.
It doesn't matter what you do it will never be enough. She's bad mouthing you anyway so give her a reason to bad mouth you.
Difficult situation op but your not responsible for her.
I agree with pp, build a relationship with your sister.
Flowers

Catherinebee85 · 28/05/2017 23:47

This sounds like behaviour and personality issues much more than an illness which could be treated with antidepressants. She sounds dependent, unstable and narcissistic. You need clear and firm boundaries in order to create any relationship which is ever going to work.

You've already had some great advice. I just think encouraging her to seek medication could be completely fruitless when it doesn't seem like there's an illness to treat!

Absofrigginlootly · 29/05/2017 13:34

Thought of another tip for you... I had probably over a decade or more starting as a young teen of my DM moaning to me about my sibling (another way to sabotage your sibling relationship because then you feel angry towards your sibling for upsetting your DM - you've been trained to put her first of course)

It got so bad that she would call me up and spend a good hour going on and on about whatever perceived transgression she had suffered at the hands of DSis. Anyway I would always respond with a flat "you need to talk to DSis and discuss it, to resolve the situation". When that didn't work eventually I just said "I've told you what I think, if you have a problem with something DSis has done, you need to address it with her" and then refused to listen to it anymore. As soon as she would start up her moaning I cut her off and responded the same way. I had to be even more blunt a few times and say "I'm not going to listen to his any more" but it's worked because it's been a good 5 years or more since shes tried to moan at me about that now. You just have to be firm and stick to it. Good luck

CesareBorgiasUnicornMask · 29/05/2017 18:01

Thank you :). I will try harder to keep in touch with my sister. We get on brilliantly when we see each other but tbh speak on the phone very rarely - I will put more effort into that. In other news, my mum has not contacted me at all since she went off yesterday, which I know should probably count as a win but I just feel nervous and guilty Confused. Worried she's really miserable, dreading the next time I have to talk to her. I know I'm being ridiculous.

OP posts:
Golondrina · 29/05/2017 18:10

That's the FOG (Fear Obligation and Guilt) of a dysfunctional relationship. Did you get a chance to read about narcissistic mothers?

OnTheRise · 29/05/2017 20:15

There's a lot of good information and advice about setting and enforcing boundaries on Captain Awkward's site, which you might find useful.

Meanwhile you might find it helpful to see if you can get your GP to refer you for some counselling or CBT, to help you feel less guilty about stuff. It's perfectly reasonablehealthy and positive, in factto have strong boundaries, and you have no need to feel bad about doing this.

I'm so sorry you're having such a difficult time. My mother is much the same. My life has improved a lot since I stopped having contact with my parents.

Tiredofstruggling1 · 29/05/2017 20:22

She is full of abuse and manipulation and control. Join out of the fog and start putting in boundaries.

JapaneseTea · 29/05/2017 20:33

Maybe use whatsapp to message your sister? Using it has really helped me to arrange time to see my sister.

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