What do you think about my husband's behaviour? I need outside perspectives

[MaxwellAndPeterson]

For balance, he's great 70% of the time: texts me every day to say I love you, buys flowers and thoughtful gifts, is supportive, is brilliant in a crisis, we laugh a lot, like the same things, enjoy going away together, days out, etc.

No children by mutual choice and we've been together 20 years.

I'll try to be as brief as I can without drip feeding!

He's fussy and obsessive. He places huge importance on 'things' - furniture, decor, clothes, etc. If something gets knocked, he inspects it, often with a torch if he can't see any damage with his naked eye. Then he'll quiz me: do I think it's damaged? Do I think it's stained? Do I think it's ok? That's if he has had the accident. If it's me who has done something, he goes on and on and on at me or he'll lecture me about it about the correct way to do the task to ensure no accident.

He can't stand losing things and will spend hours and hours systematically taking the house apart looking for something he has lost. He once emptied all the outside bins and checked every single piece of rubbish, including rotting food, looking for a hair comb that had cost £4.

He always blames me for anything that gets misplaced. Likewise, he always blames me if anything is damaged, even natural wear and tear.

He is very untidy and I am fairly tidy. He has clothes and shoes on all three bedroom floors. Despite this, I have found several items of mine seemingly thrown or kicked around. E.g. a pair of my shoes that I had left stood upright by the bed were both on their sides and in the middle of the floor, as if they had been kicked. He denied he had kicked them and when I pressed him, he said he had merely picked them up and moved them because they were in the way.

We share a car. If I've last driven it, he always sighs loudly when he gets in and needs to adjust the seat. Likewise, he sighs loudly when the car stereo comes on and it's on one of my music albums.

If we fall out, he refuses to discuss it. He acts huffy, gives me the silent treatment for a few hours, or pretends nothing has happened. If I try to discuss anything, he always denies he was in any way in the wrong, or he minimises what happened, or he shuts me down as fast as possible.

He is generally bad mannered and acts irritable with me. He can't stand saying please or thank you to me. If I say something and he hasn't heard me, he will sigh and say 'What' in this bored tone. He demands information from me, rather than asking nicely. E.g. 'where is the car key?' in an impatient snappy voice.

He leaves dirty pots out on the counter where I prep food, so they're in my way and I have to move them in order to make a meal - when when I've emptied the dishwasher so he could put them directly in there instead. He denies doing this specifically to annoy me, but he continues to do it, even though I've asked him not to many times over many years.

He can't stand me asking things of him. For example, if he's gardening and I ask him to cut back a branch while he's got the tools on the go, he'll tut, sigh and get irritable and say he hasn't got time.

I once asked what time he would be ready when we were going out somewhere, and he snapped 'Why?' And 'you're pressuring me'.

If he's taking the dog for a walk on his own and I'm staying in the house, maybe because I'm feeling rough or am staying in to cook dinner, he refuses to say 'bye' to me - he just walks out of the house. But he always says goodbye if he's going to work or out with friends, etc. Likewise, if it's his turn to take the dog in the garden for a wee, he leaves the door wide open next to where I'm sitting so I get cold while he's outside, rather than pushing the door to.

There are millions more examples, but I'm trying to keep this from getting too long! Generally, I get this underlying sense of power games and control from him, but because his MO is to deny, deny, deny, or to minimise anything I bring up, or to refuse to discuss anything with me, I have no idea.

You are walking on eggshells which is a horrible and incredibly stressful way to live. Have you got any holiday time due at work - get away for a break or go on a retreat. My friend lived with a guy like this - incredibly pernicketty about the house but cluttered up the whole living room by hoarding old TV's that he planned to fix, critical of lots of minor things and the sighing!. Finally, my friend left him after many, many years and is so happy - most of her health issues have disappeared - she looks years younger and now has a lovely cat.

If you are not ready to consider leaving then start to emotionally detach, make your own life, quietly remove yourself when he starts his sighing or proclamations or watch stuff on the laptop with headphones - shields up and rise above. See about getting yourself a little second hand car.

Thanks, that's a good idea. I have started doing this a bit more actually. Going out for the day when he's doing a job on the house, catching up with friends more often, or even just taking myself to another room of the house.

And yes, I am walking on egg shells. I feel tense and anxious a lot of the time, predicting his mood, predicting what he'll say. I have headaches a lot from tensing up.

his tactics serve to sap your energy, making it hard for you to look at the situation objectively and decide on a rational course of action

My husband isn't quite like yours, though I recognise certain aspects. In my case, I labelled it as him not wanting to be "beholden to a woman". Lots of minor things, even from fairly early on, even to a frown when I'd lit the fire in the sitting room one winter's day, because, you know, that's The Man's job. (He didn't greet me or the children, just went immediately to check the fire, i.e. poked it a bit.)

When we first met, he was quite an anxious person, lacking somewhat in self-confidence. I credit myself with boosting his confidence, especially regarding his accountancy exams and further progress in his career. He turned out to be exceptionally good and got to being one of the best partners in his accountancy practice. He was very good at supporting the women who worked in his office, in particularly encouraging his then secretary to go for her AAT exams.

But it all blew up, very slowly and over a period of time. I'd been seeing a counsellor for a while, with a lot of focus on my self-esteem. My counsellor and I had a running theme of "I don't do tea", getting me to realise that I had a heck of a lot more to offer than that in my various job situations. My husband filled in my tax return, which was a bit complicated in the way that accountants do, but he would just present me with the last page, and a pen, and expect me to just merely sign. I knew, as well as he did, that that was totally against the rules.

Bit by bit, I rebelled. Not directly, just said I needed to the look at the whole tax return before I signed. There were other times when I just calmly said, "that's enough". We had a kitchen extension done, and he planned all that. Until I decided it didn't work for me, because he manspread all over the work surfaces. I re-arranged that so I actually had space for my needs. Got the pursed lip and silence. But, you know, fuck that. He is a great cook, his parents ran a very exclusive restaurant, and his father was the chef. All I wanted was a dedicated space where I could chop an onion and grate some cheese.

Since I claimed the small bits that matter to me, he gradually got better. He now explains (in detail) all the aspects of my tax return. He no longer thinks that all correspondence addressed to me about my state and occupational pension should be handed to him unopened. He thanks me for the printout of my Excel spreadsheet which details my pensions.

He is now a lovely, somewhat elderly, slightly eccentric man. But back then, he was at times a fucking rat bastard of an ego.

Sometimes, they come good, if you're prepared to wait for it. It's up to you to decide if it's worth the effort.

Different situation to yours but I wasted a lot of time trying to work out my XP and his unusual behaviour towards me. In the end, I just decided I was wasting my time. I would never work him out. He just didn't act in a way that showed that he wanted to be with me. Like Wittgen I think he also didn't want to be 'beholden to a woman'.

I've worked for bosses who have walked away when I've been answering them. I just stop talking and carry on with my work. I don't do it to other people so why should they do it to me?

But if they walk away when you are talking to them, isn't it you who doesn't get heard? He's had his say and that's all he cares about. You are left frustrated and have not had a chance to put your points across, so how does stopping talking mean he has lost?

Agree this is controlling and abusive behaviour and does not sound fun.

Walk away when he's lecturing you. He can talk to you as if you were an adult or he can talk to thin air, his choice.

There doesn't seem to be much respect for you coming from him. Have you read this thread - you only need to read the op: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/698029-Right-listen-up-everybody

You know, being single is an option.

It's fine. It's good. There is no reason whatsoever, to live with someone who doesn't enhance your living conditions.

Imagine how your life could be if you were not expending all this time and energy on him. What would you like to do?

I have tried most of the methods suggested - researching personality disorders, using humour, walking away, ignoring the behaviour, standing up for myself and telling him 'not acceptable', trying to have honest, adult discussions with him. Not one single thing has worked.

At the crux of it is, I feel very resentful at his blame game and at his refusal to accept he is ever wrong - even with tiny stupid things. And I'm tired of trying, to be honest. He either wants a grown-up nice relationship, or he doesn't. Someone said it's not my job to fix him. Well I did try, but it's not worked and I can only see it getting worse as he gets older.

Thank you to everyone who replied. You've really helped.

This is not OCD.

He is emotionally and psychologically abusing you, and this will not stop.

Start thinking of yourself as single, see how that sits with you. Daydream about the sort of home you would have for yourself. Start daydreaming about only having in your life people who are kind to you. This man is not kind to you. He is cruel.

Buy and read www.amazon.co.uk/d/cka/Why-Does-He-Do-That-Inside-Controlling/0425191656?tag=mumsnetforum-21 'Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men' by Lundy Bancroft. See if you recognise your H in these pages.

You are dealing with an angry and controlling man.
It is not your job to try to fill the bottomless pit of ego needs that his parents dug during his awful childhood.

Everything he does and says and all the gestures that drive you up the wall are designed to tell you that he is wonderful and you are dogshit on the sole of his shoe.

The times he is not being an utter sadist are there to throw you off balance and make you hope that by behaving yourself you can somehow win his favour and stave off another assault on your spirit. This man wants to destroy you, and he will succeed unless you manage to leave and wash your hands completely of him.

Do you see any of this going on?
www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/malignant-self-love/the-mind-of-the-abuser/
In her seminal tome, "The Verbally Abusive Relationship", Patricia Evans lists the various forms of manipulation which together constitute verbal and emotional (psychological) abuse:

Withholding (the silent treatment), countering (refuting or invalidating the spouse's statements or actions), discounting (putting down her emotions, possessions, experiences, hopes, and fears), sadistic and brutal humor, blocking (avoiding a meaningful exchange, diverting the conversation, changing the subject), blaming and accusing, judging and criticizing, undermining and sabotaging, threatening, name calling, forgetting and denying, ordering around, denial, and abusive anger.

To these we can add:

Wounding "honesty", ignoring, smothering, dotting, unrealistic expectations, invasion of privacy, tactlessness, sexual abuse, physical maltreatment, humiliating, shaming, insinuating, lying, exploiting, devaluing and discarding, being unpredictable, reacting disproportionately, dehumanizing, objectifying, abusing confidence and intimate information, engineering impossible situations, control by proxy and ambient abuse.

Here is an index by topic of that site:
www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/malignant-self-love/index-by-theme
Scroll a long way down to 'Abusers, Abuse Victims, Abuse in the Family, Abusive Behaviors', and browse through all of the topics in that theme.

www.verbalabuse.com/
Patricia Evans site, with info on her books, including 'The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to Recognize it and How to Respond'.
Be thankful you did not have children with this man, for your sake but also for the sake of the children.

If you leave a visual sign to put the pots away when he is finished, like a picture of pots in the sink and a line going through them, see if that works? Try it.

I'm not saying that because that is the main problem, I'm saying that because if he actually has aspergers, then he will get the message that way rather than you telling him repeatedly. It's a visual sign.

If he does have aspergers, do you think his dad did too and that explains why his mother was long suffering and had no patience with your husband? Every single sentence in every one of your posts could be explained by him having aspergers. I have someone very close to me living with this.
it's a lonely life and you are in a desert but there is help available.

I hope you figure it all out and have a happy life!

Unless the OP's husband is willing to pursue a diagnosis for Asperger's and work with her to create strategies which they both can live with, then this is a red herring, another way to excuse/try to fix the behaviour.

I think what mathanxiety says is spot on.

Op, i'm very close to someone who is married to someone identical to what you describe in your opening post - down to a tee, it's scarily uncanny.

I agree that this is not about OCD, this is control and is psychological abuse. If you believe it's OCD related (apologies if I'm using the wrong terminology there but you get what I mean) then you should be able to address this with him. It's a medical condition. He will need to go and get help. If he doesn't the he doesn't care enough about you or your marriage.

As I say though, I don't think it is. I would also question your assessment of being like this 30% of the time. If the other 70% of the time you are editing your behaviour so as to decrease the chances of an episode and its repercussions (which I would wager you are) then he is actually 100% like this, you are just 'lucky' enough to avoid incident the rest of the time.

I would run for the hills, then I'd find another hill and i'd sprint over it.

Oh I wouldn't try to fix that!

You are spot on. Best of luck op x

What a waste of two lives.

OP, do you have a plan?

He despises you

I am another one wondering if the 70% 'good' bits are the bits when you are at work and not together Also sending flowers is just completely irrelevant (I am influenced here by the fact that every flower-sender I have known in my life has been a player or incredibly hard to ive with - I accept that this is not a scientific sample).

I spent a long time in my first marriage wishing that someone else could observe my husband's behaviour and make an overall judgment about whether it was normal and whether we should stay together (his behaviour was nothing like your husband's btw but I also recognise elements of it). Eventually I hit a crunch point and realised that nobody was going to make this decision for me, and that was right because it was my life, and even if he were the best person ever (and he could be pretty amazing, he could have written a huge post about my flaws which would all have been 100% true and would have had choruses of 'LTBs' flying) his behaviour was still not something I wanted to put up with. You are allowed to want what you want and to have a life you want, even if a judge would consider the one that you don't want to be OK (see Tiny Owens story).

In the end, two people living together who don't have sex or any kind of special physical intimacy (no kissing??), don't have children - what do you have? Do you look forward to seeing him? Is this even a marriage any more?

mathanxiety thank you for the links and information. Depressing as it is to read, I think you're right.

I would also question your assessment of being like this 30% of the time. If the other 70% of the time you are editing your behaviour so as to decrease the chances of an episode and its repercussions (which I would wager you are) then he is actually 100% like this, you are just 'lucky' enough to avoid incident the rest of the time.

You're probably right. How depressing.

I really don't understand why he stays with me if he supposedly dislikes me so much. He always said that he hates game playing in relationships and that he would never stick out a relationship that he couldn't see lasting long term. Does this mean he quite likes having me around as his battering ram?

Would it be a 70/30 split if you didn't follow his 'rules? You're being abused and mh issues and poor upbringing isn't a justification or explanation. This is who he is, there isn't a parallel universe where he's different and life is too short to waste on an unpleasant man.

Stop asking 'why is he like this?' and start asking 'why do I put up with it'? The good news is, you can uncover the answer to the latter.

Someone asked what I'm going to do.

In the short term for the next few months, I've gone ahead and booked an appointment with a counsellor. I'll try a few months of counselling for my own sanity.

In the meantime, I need to deal with my stress - I feel so tense and anxious. I've been looking at yoga/meditation classes. I'm also going to start 'emotionally detaching' I think someone on the thread called it. Get my ducks in a row, have a clear out of my things, look into money and housing matters, etc.

Longer term, I'll more than likely leave.

Sounds like he's taking out his issues stemming from his unhappy childhood on you. I would give him the chance to work them through with a psychotherapist and if he refused I would tell him that the relationship is over. Assess your finances and start making your escape plan.

Good luck OP