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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

elderly mum and inadequate home

40 replies

thewooster · 09/04/2017 16:00

I'm really struggling here and would appreciate some other perspectives. My mum and dad are in their 70s and live in their own home with my brother who is 40s. DM had a stroke a couple of years ago and is almost wheelchair bound. She can walk with a frame but has so many other health issues, it is hard for her. She is very weak.

After her stroke my DB became her carer and gets money for this and he does her meals and hoovering etc.

My problem is she cannot get upstairs and uses a commode. She has no washing facilities, no available shower and does not sleep in a bed - she washes her hands at the kitchen sink. She sleeps in one of those adjustable chairs.

After the stroke I tried to get them help from the council to get a grant for a downstairs loo but my parents and brother refused because the council wanted to 'stick their nose into their finances.' So it was a no-go. I then begged my dad to get a loo put into a downstairs room but he wouldnt and she has to use this horrible commode.

Anyway she has gone downhill healthwise recently and cannot get off the commode without help and my DB refuses to do this which I understand as it is embarrassing for both of them. My dad helps but he is not in good health but he empties the commode which my DB wont touch.

I dared to mention that they should move into a bungalow or get their house (it is really rundown) updated and DB went mad and said he has to do all the work and I live in my ivory tower and dont do anything.

Thing is I was not attacking him, all I said was can we work together to persuade our parents to update or move. I appreciate he does the meals and hoovering but he has lived their rent free all his life and pays no bills at all.

I do their banking, sorting out doctors, collecting pills, food shopping so I do contribute.

He totally blew up at me and my DM was on his side because she does everything he says, so I was sent packing when all I am doing is thinking of the future. My dad is not in a great shape so I'm thinking of the future when they both might need a downstairs bathroom.

They own their home and have not done any work on it since the 80s. Things have to break before they get mended if you know what I mean.

Am I a bad person for wanting bathroom facilities for my DM? I'm feeling very hurt by his comments that he is the one doing everything when it is not true. Ok I moved out and have my own house and kids, but I work full time whereas he has never worked in his life.

OP posts:
smurfy2015 · 09/04/2017 18:04

Sorting out doctors - meant to add if that was in relation to appointments with GP, in some cases that can be done online and book slots in. For hospital appts in England there is a scheme called book and choose i think. For accessability and wheelchair, there may be a local scheme such as a dial a ride / community transport where the disabled person pays a nominal amount for their journey as a wheelchair takes up more space, a companion can go with them too - for hospital appts there is non emergency ambulances which can be organised at the hospital clinics discretion

JaneEyre70 · 09/04/2017 18:16

I hate to say this but your brother isn't caring, he's helping them. Not to belittle that, but your mum needs help with washing, dressing and toileting which means that she needs regular care visits and I think you need to get a social worker for her. I was looking after my gran when she fell ill, the whole family was happy to dump it in my lap and after 6 months of it I was at the end of my tether. I phoned SS, and a lovely lady came out to assess gran and she was awarded 3 care visits a day which took so much pressure off. Family are often very stubborn in accepting that someone needs help and that they aren't capable of providing that care, but you really need to sort this before she ends up with an infection as hygiene is so important. A reclining chair is not suitable for long term sleeping, and she really should have a bed that rises and lowers so she can use it with ease. Local day centres offer bathing for those who don't have faciities at home, but the whole not paying attitude is a terrible one as it is only the patient who suffers, not the rest of the family sadly. You may have to be your mums voice here, and it won't be popular but a professional will soon see how unsuitable her accomodation is and that her needs aren't being met.

smurfy2015 · 09/04/2017 18:20

Hear, hear Jane - you described it a lot better than i could

thewooster · 09/04/2017 18:29

Thank you so much for all these replies. I am reading through them all and taking it all in so I can decide the next step. There's a lot to consider and I was surprised that the equipment is not means tested as my DF told me it was.

Just off round to DM's now and then I will sit back and think of what to do.

OP posts:
parklives · 09/04/2017 19:33

Op, I am sorry but you need to get hold of this situation.
I have been in a similar situation with my parents and it was a case of pushing through things that I (and most people) consider basics of human life.
Your poor mum needs you to step up for her, I know you have an added complication of your brother, but they can't treat her like this!
I agree there is lots of help out there, including bathing at day centres, carers who will come and assist your mum with personal care.
I think your brother is defrauding your mum but taking a carers allowance from the state, which is preventing her getting actual care.
You can go down a legal route if you have to...not that anyone would want to.
Can you imagine your children being treated like this? Then it's not ok for your mum.
I know I am being hard on you op, but you sound like the only person in her life that can protect her from this abuse.

SlB09 · 09/04/2017 19:52

This doesn't sound like abuse Parklives and yes that is very very harsh to the OP. Firstly her mother cannot be compared to a child, she is an adult with adult capacity and ability to make her own decisions even if they are to her own detriment. Secondly, we cant judge people on our own standards of living. You would be incredibly suprised at how some people choose to live - and thats the vital word 'choose'. OP cant force her mother and father to do anything they dont want to, the same as your parents couldn't stop you as a young adult making huge mistakes they could foresee but it was your choice to make them, and no doubt you did to their frustration.

OP's brother hopefully does all he can to help, and I think its quite fair to not want to provide personal care to your mother. His mother might not want this either. Yes carers would be perfect but she needs to consent to this which OP cant force her to do.

This situation is hard enough for the OP without being accused of abuse!

notbankinonit · 09/04/2017 20:37

SIBO9 I'm a community nurse, and our area will provide endless equipment completely free as well, but I have an aquaintance in another area who says pts have to pay for pressure relieving equipment, so Does it vary that much from place to place?

thewooster · 09/04/2017 20:42

Just got back from DM's and could not believe it but she was looking at saniflo toilets on the web, grab rails, and DB was going through some sites with her. It felt like such a breakthrough but I'm not sure if they are just trying to keep me sweet.

I cant let it drop and I want to help get some quotes to see if we can perhaps get a shower too. I'm hoping they get a traditional toilet with a sink unit etc.

I just cannot believe that this argument with my DB has actually made them think.

OP posts:
thewooster · 09/04/2017 20:45

Smurfy - you gave me a lot of info there and guidance about the shopping, banking, doctors etc. Thank you, I will definitely look into these.

Also the leg lifter is a good idea and I'll talk to my DM to see if it's something we can use for her.

OP posts:
TheElephantofSurprise · 09/04/2017 20:45

My parents' situation was different but when I wrote to the GP and copied to social services, action was taken.

SlB09 · 09/04/2017 21:23

Notbankinonit It is part of national agreements and service deliveries (taken off nhs website)

"If a local authority needs assessment has concluded that you need this equipment, it should be provided free of charge. Minor adaptations costing £1,000 or less – which includes the cost of buying and fitting the adaptation – are also provided free of charge. Councils can make a charge for minor adaptations that cost more than £1,000 to provide.
Larger, more expensive items may be classed as adaptations and will be the responsibility of the housing department and provided through Disabled Facilities Grants."

I cannot imagine a way you would get round or get away with charging for pressure relieving equipment when pressure ulcer rates are so highly audited and nationally rated and target driven? Its appalling if so though!!

notbankinonit · 10/04/2017 06:45

SIBO9 thanks for that. I may have misunderstood her, but I don't think so. It was a couple of yrs ago though, so I will ask her again when I see her.
thewooster glad you seem to be moving forward. I think there are many people in your family's position. We as nurses etc often don't see them until something actually goes wrong. Then, we can only help if the patient gives their consent, and if someone is pulling strings in the background it can be difficult. Sometimes they are resistant because of a lack of knowledge. People struggle on.

smurfy2015 · 10/04/2017 09:23

No problem @thewooster, also any health concerns you have in relation to your parents esp if they are both registered at same gp practice but esp your mum, i would bullet point the health concerns in the letter to gp too with a line or 2 why you are concerned

Have a chat with your brother if you can as somewhere down the line, while your parents can make their own decisions now, whats going to happen if something was to happen tomorrow?

*btw when i say you, i dont mean you specifically, it could be you yourself or someone else, like brother

Is there a power of attorney, for health care even if not financial and it doesnt have to be used but to know that it will help make things easier - once you have all got past this point and in time and are hopefully in a better place, i would consider discussing with parents about at least 1 of you being added to their notes in the GP surgery as a listed carer, this basically means that the GP knows you are doing some caring (from a distance/ non personal care), in a health crisis or with concerns, the GP can speak to you as prior consent will have been given by parent,

For yourself, even if are able to get brother to take more on, carers in etc, i would advise a trip to your own gp, or at least a phone call and ask them to add you to their carers register - you are more vulnerable to certain conditions than rest of population so you get extra checked and as a win for the gp surgery they get to add you to the carers register so a point for their practice target score

Depends on past professions and postcodes etc but i would recommend having a look around on grants-search.turn2us.org.uk/?_ga=1.239218051.1067319476.1491810576

Re equipment - my order of doing things would be, ask for OT assessment to see what is needed, ask OT to liaise with District Nurse to see if can loan anything. They may get a grant for making an accessable bathroom downstairs with the recommendation of the OT. (disabled facilities grant, i think it still is called)

In my area (Northern Ireland) any bits under £50 have to fund ourselves,

Also you may be able to lease out equipment but the OT and DN should be your first port of call mainly the OT. The physio should prob do an assessment to see if anything extra can help,

As @TheElephantofSurprise - THIS - "My parents' situation was different but when I wrote to the GP and copied to social services, action was taken." - copy it to everyone involved, make yourself heard, send several letters etc a week as needed

@thewooster i wonder has your mum actually had a proper ot assessment, apart from the type of one where she told them she can do everything even stuff she obviously cant,

OTs are wise enough to know but unless asked to do a second assessment and have a good reason for reassessment they cant redo based on a hunch as the pressure is coming from above them to reduce services not reach out and persuade people they need the help or service such as carers

"Ok I moved out and have my own house and kids, but I work full time whereas he has never worked in his life" - you deserve a break in this as you are doing this for pure love with no gain to you, you are around to your mums x 4 times a day, have your own house and kids and work ft - somethings gotta give and your dads health is going down so he may not be able to empty commodes for your mum long term while your brother hoovers and makes meals and is a carer who doesnt do personal care, your dads health may not hold out as you say he is not in good health.

i say to your brother, time to man up, gloves on, vapour rub under nostril, pour #1 into toilet and flush, wash out commode basin and flush that water too, replace basin, gloves off, wash hands - gloves on, vapour rub under nostril, put some toilet paper over #2, wash out into toilet and flush, wash out commode basin and flush that water too, replace basin, gloves off, wash hands

By trying to get some help and order in this chaos before everything sinks, you are trying to save yourself xo

parklives · 10/04/2017 09:56

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting in my post that the op was abusing her mum, but that the brother and the father were. Sorry I consider it financial abuse not to consider things like moving into suitable housing so that the dm can bath/shower, not buying in carers, or a bed etc.
Again, that's not on the op...she doesn't control the finances in that household.

TupperwareTat · 13/04/2017 09:31

Some councils offer a free loan equiptment service.

I think a height adjustable commode would really help your mum, as its higher she can push herself to standing easier.

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