Is this wrong?

[ijustdontknowanymore]

Looking for objective opinions, and will try to keep this as neutral as possible. I have name changed for obvious reasons.

At the age of 15 a girl goes to a nightclub as part of a group of four, including her best friend, her future brother in law (age 23) and her future brother in law's best friend. The girl's sister is away but aware of where her sister/partner are and their plans.

The night is fun, too much (not much by an adult's standards) is drunk and the girl's best friend (who is 16) decides to go home with the friend of the future brother in law. The girl is left with the future brother in law and they go back to his house because it's close by. She falls asleep in his bed and awakes to find he has taken her jeans and underwear off and is 'going down' on her. She starts to cry he trys to kiss her to make her be quiet, while trying to force his penis into her (she is a virgin). It only half works and she is distressed and almost hysterical at this point. He stops and they fall asleep in the same bed.

In the morning he drives her home, coaching her on what to say to her sister. He says no one will believe her if she tells the truth, and everyone including her sister, will hate her for lying.

Whose fault was this?

How is this even a question
This is rape
Whatever your position in this scenario you need to get help for the girl

Sending you some if this is you op. If you want to talk we will listen, but don't feel under pressure to explain more on here. There is RL support available through Rape Crisis.

He is a rapist
Poor poor girl.
He needs to be reported

I don't think the Op is the girl.
It is rape without a doubt.
I also think that legally, a girl under the age of 16 cannot give consent.

I hope she finds the courage to report the scum bag to her DSis and the police.

The future BIL is a sexual predator. He took the 15 YO out, plied her with alcohol and sexually assaulted her, then attempted to rape her. Not only was it his 'fault', it was his intention.

This needs to be reported to stop him from doing it again to the 15 YO or someone else, so the sister who is planning to marry him is aware of it and can, (hopefully, if she's a reasonable and rational human being) get rid.

This scumbag needs to not be a permanent fixture in the 15 YO's life and able to abuse her or attempt it in the future.

If the 15 YO is you OP, I hope you're OK.

OP if this was you I'm sorry and I think it might help to talk to someone.

Most definitely the young girl in this scenario was not to blame in any way. None of what is described is ok.

If this is historic and he is now an actual brother in law then I imagine there will be complicated feelings. The girl should not in any way feel to blame for not speaking out at the time, nor since.

Rape Crisis could help this girl/woman work through her thoughts and feelings about what happened and support her even if it happened a long time ago.

Sorry - I was thinking the OP wasn't the girl if it had happened recently. I didn't think about a historical situation

This is entirely the fault of the rapist future bil.

You mention the 15 yo's older sister "knows the plans" but I highly doubt that. It wouldn't be your default setting to assume your future spouse saying something like "we will watch your sister and her friend, no worries, we will probably take them out" actually translates as "I intend to get your sister drunk, take her home under the guise of being a protective older brother figure then assault and rape her when she passes out."

The 15 yo and her friend likely just thought he was playing cool older brother, taking them out somewhere they know they aren't supposed to be. Teens that age are very impressionable and would assume he would look after them but was trying to impress them by being "cool". The 15 year old me certainly would have assumed that a man my older sister deemed good enough to want to marry would look after me. I would have assumed he wanted me to like him so I'd tell my sister how much fun he was. It would never have crossed my mind that his motives were sinister.

Did the older friend voluntarily go off with the bils friend? I'm thinking it was either all a deliberate and planned set up from both or the future bil rapist twat was jealous that his mate pulled a 16 yo and decided he wanted some too. Either way future bil is a rapist who needs reporting. His friend the jury is out on. You'd need to hear the other girls account.

No other person is to blame in any way except the rapist.

OP My gut feeling is you are the older sister tbh. If that's true please don't blame yourself. In your situation I would have absolutely assumed my fiancé was trying to get on my good side by offering to essentially look after my sister.

Regardless of how you are connected This situation is going to be incredibly rough for both sisters. The younger for obvious reasons but the older one has also just had her world shattered by this asshole. The only way out is for the sisters to support each other and evict this rapist scumbag from their lives. If I was the older sister I would support the decision of my younger sister re reporting. However If it's recent the younger sister needs to be examined asap ideally especially if she wants to report.

Rape crisis will be a good first port of call.

with the knowledge of one girl's sister (what was she thinking?).

Depends what she was told. We don't actually know. It just says she "knew the plans" I'm fairly sure he didn't include the raping her sister detail. She could have simply been told something like "we will look after them, maybe take them into town" and assumed her fiancé she loved and trusted was going to take her sister and her friend to the cinema or something. You know looking after, caring for and treating her sister to show how much he also cares about her sister who is important to her?

You can say it's not appropriate but the default setting of many people (especially younger ones) wouldn't be to assume it was. My older brother used to take me to the cinema when I was a teen. I had friends whose older siblings helped them sneak into clubs so they could "look cool" I never heard of a sinister ending to this. Granted there may have been one but I don't know of one.

Older siblings being out with us wasn't uncommon when I was a teen. If the sister was brought up where this was common she may not have thought twice. I would think twice now but I'm mid 30's. when I was early 20's someone who I loved and trusted implicitly who is essentially an older brother figure taking out my kid sister and her friend out genuinely wouldn't have registered with me as a risk. I really would have just assumed they wanted to get my sister to think they were great, like I did. Call me naive but that would have been my honest gut feeling at that age.

You have to remember that many people in their early 20's aren't much more common sense aware than younger teens and most don't have a good asshole detector. We know the rapist ass is 23 but the older sister could easily be only late teens/early 20's herself. If she's dated this guy for a while she may not have even thought twice after all if he took her out when she was 17/18/19 and she was fine why wouldn't her sister be?

You could also argue that the 15 year old should have said no to booze and clubs. It's irrelevant. There is only one asshole here and they aren't a woman.

It also depends on who is telling this story. If it is the 15 yo she may have been told by the future bil that her sister knew the plans but her sister may be as yet totally unaware of any of this.

If the sister knew her future fiancé was a rapist and had designs on her sister there is a whole other problem here. I'm assuming this is not the case.

The only way out I see is rape crisis and for the sisters to support each other. Like I say two worlds have been shattered and only one person is to blame for it.

It's the BILs fault, and I'd say there was an element of grooming too - taking her to a club, buying her alcohol, telling her what to say afterwards. He sounds predatory.

I am not sure why you ask 'who's fault is this?'
are you implying this is her 'fault'... ?!

He knew exactly that what he was doing is wrong, otherwise he wouldn't be trying to create a story and cover it up.
Report it, he is a rapist.
If not her, who does he move to next.

Thanks for your replies everybody. I was the 15 year old in this scenario, but it happened over ten years ago now. I never told anybody, just pretended it hadn't happened and carried on as normal. But now I can't stop thinking about it and I feel so completely ashamed. I don't understand why it is affecting me so badly now so many years later, but I can't stop thinking what a terrible person I am for putting myself in that situation.

My sister didn't go on to marry him but they did have a baby together. As they were breaking up, he told her that I had willingly had sex with him, probably to try to hurt her. I lied again and denied anything had ever happened. She didn't believe me and now we are completely NC (they were other contributing factors to this too). I felt like if I told her what happened she would say I was lying to try to cover up what I had done. I just wish I could stop feeling guilty I guess.

Oh OP, I'm so sorry. You have done NOTHING to be ashamed of. You are NOT a terrible person. You should NOT feel guilty.

What an awful thing to have happened to you. I'm sad for the 15 year old you who didn't feel they could tell anyone.

The situation with your sister is complicated and i would suggest that right now you need to concentrate on yourself. You do not deserve to feel bad in any way.

It might help to think of a teenage children you know. I am sure if this happened to them you would be very clear that they hold no blame whatsoever.

I hope you might consider talking to somebody. Rape Crisis would be helpful to you I think. They also have links to local organisations. It might be a while before/if you feel like talking.

Writing here is a great start.

I'm sorry OP what a massive bastard is he is. You can't have been expected to know what to do at that age. It's so hard being a teenager. You can't punish yourself over it or blame yourself.

I'm sorry your sister is NC with you now over it. I don't know if trying to tell her your side of the story would help you. If it would drag things up for you, and what kind of a person she is, if she would believe you and if you could get your relationship back.

Is there anyone you can speak to in person or have you looked into counselling?

I'm sorry this happened to you

OP, these thoughts are resurfacing now because you were too young to deal with them at the time. Now you are adult enough to have a different take on what happened to you and to your own reactions at the time. You haven't got closure.

I would tell your sister the truth. Explain that you were too frightened to admit it, explain that you did not fully understand it was rape, explain that you were traumatised and confused. You are already NC so her reaction can't possibly make anything any worse in that respect, but at least you will feel that you did speak up for that poor helpless 15yo you once were.

It isn't your fault or your sisters fault. If
You are already NC was this a contributing factor? You need some support and
You need to know that the only one who did wrong here was HIM.

There is absolutely nothing for you to feel ashamed about OP. You are the victim here. I hope you find some one to talk to about this in rl and get some help.

Dear op, I am so sorry this happened to you. I think you would benefit from talking this through in rl in a safe space. then you can decide whether there is any action you want to take either in terms of telling family or reporting

I believe you.

So sorry to hear this :(

Maybe it's coming up now because you have headspace to deal with it?

Is there anyone you could talk to in real life?

He sounds vile.

Please stop blaming yourself it is NOT your fault!

Counselling? CBT?