What would you assume if your husband / wife / partner hadn't spoken to you properly since October, and before that hadn't shown you any affection for years?

[helpmeseethewoods]

In the past arguments have lead to long silences. We're talking weeks. In the past I would have got us out of this by sending emails asking him to start talking.

Last year though there were two instances in which H had one of his rages and then stopped talking to me, but both these times, I was so sure that I had done nothing wrong, that it made me see his behaviour in a different light. So after the first argument (during which H became extremely rude and angry because I mistakenly overpaid someone he owed money to (who came to the house while H wasn't there) by £20 - essentially the man tricked me) I let H not talk and not talk, without sending him my usual email, and H eventually snapped out of it (weeks later).

The second silence, beginning in October, was due to H bellowing ARE YOU STUPID (amongst other sarcastic/nasty statements) at me, in front of our dds (), because I had dared to say that he should make ds more food (H had been asking me what ds had eaten, and telling me that he probably wanted cooked food, after I had been trying to tell him that ds had already made himself a sandwhich, and I had made him some pasta).

There is a long history of these kinds of verbal rages, which probably happen every 6 weeks to 3 months. They are then followed by silences.

When you add this to the fact that he never touches me or shows me any affection, does not ask me anything about me (this is part of his family culture though), does not want to discuss the future, and that I can't talk to him about the things I want/need to - it's clear that we should get divorced isn't it? He has also for many years refused to put the family home in both our names, which is a big bone of contention, or was, as I no longer talk about it. So I do not feel secure about the future. A couple of years ago he hid a retail property that he had bought, and lied about it when I first found out , so I am sure he could do this again - and in fact he has been telling ds that a couple of the properties that he owns (this is part of what he does, develop property) have had offers made on them. I was in the room but he directed all of this to ds, as we are not talking at all. So now, in addition to everything else, I am worried about what he is going to do if and when these properties actually sell.

My problem is that I now feel co-responsible for the current silence between us. After his "ARE YOU STUPID" outburst in October, I knew as clearly as possible, that I have had enough. So I have gone about detaching. Which means that I haven't at any stage tried to end the silence, and you could argue that I am now part of it.

We went to watch our daughter in a production and the entire way there and at the theatre, he said nothing. I made a little conversation (very little) on the train, but he basically answered my questions and that's it. While we were at the theatre I said a couple of things about our dds to him and he smiled. Otherwise it was like being next to a stranger. Except that I still feel that physical pull towards him.

So I have to get divorced from someone that I still fancy, and I still feel attached to (inevitable I suppose, after 21 years), who I know will make any divorce very difficult, and will have one massive temper tantrum when he receives any petition .

The whole household will be thrown into disarray. The dc might blame me. They might decide to live with him - and this fills me with fear. But I really don't want them growing up with this awful example of non-communication being their blueprint.

The odd part about all of this is that I feel H might be receptive if I were to try to communicate with him - but do I really want to go back to the status quo, because I don't think he is going to change, and I am always going to feel unloved and insecure?

It would really help if I could instigate a divorce from somewhere else, but I know that moving out of the family home sets a precedent of being able to financially afford somewhere else (which I couldn't, my Dad would help me rent somewhere for a little while while the divorce was being sorted) so it's not a good idea.

So I am going to have my own devastation and sorrow, as well as H's verbal abuse alone .

It all feels crap and I don't know what to do or how to do it.

I have contacted a solicitor I had previously been to see and hopefully she will be able to meet me so that I can ask her all the questions I have. That still isn't going to help me find the courage to fill in this awful petition and somehow give it to H though. I can't believe that I would take a bomb to my dcs' stability and mine . It's all shit, every way I look at it, and I truly feel that I am between a rock and a hard place .

Thanks for all your messages.

Yes I live in the UK. The dc are 11, 13 and 15.

I could probably have rowed back from this silence as immediately after the October outburst, in the first days of the silence, H twice gave me a plate of food when he had cooked a meal. He also asked me if I wanted to go to a restaurant we used to sometimes go to for lunch (and then sit there without a great deal to say to each other as he doesn't open up at all, and I can't not open up but don't know how to do it with him - but it used to be reasonably pleasant as we both like the food!). I said no because I was busy and he retreated in a huff. Still, as efforts go, they weren't massive (!) and he would never apologise or discuss our relationship. I also know that in another bad mood he will be verbally abusive again, if pushed. In fact, later on in the long silence he managed to call me an "incompetent bum" who should confide in her "shitbags" (friends, family, people in my life???) in an argument about the fact that he thought I wasn't dealing properly with some issues dd1 is having.

I think he genuinely forgets his angry outbursts as they are so much a part of his character. So he has no understanding of how devastating they can be, and sees no reason to apologise.

I still feel attached to him though. It's completely dysfunctional. I am sure I am part of the dysfunction as I find it so hard to express what I need with him. Then again, his reactions have trained me to say nothing I suppose.

I know this is a half life, which is why I am seeing the solicitor and trying to organise myself. But will the absolute hell that I am about to unleash be better than the half life? I have so many fears of what might happen, and of my not being able to control it. I suppose my worst fear is losing the dc through it all. That and being homeless (! - probably unlikely but the fear is there). I am also very scared of how unpleasant it will be at home while it is all going on.

What do I say to H? I come up with different scenarios of how I would tell him I want a divorce.

In terms of paperwork, assets and money, I don't know about all of it - and the paperwork is all in H's name (I own half a flat with a relative and I know that will also be put in the marital asset pot.). There are bits and pieces lying around but I am sure not all of it. All our financial stuff is separate, and I wouldn't know the names of all his businesses, or all his account numbers, or how much is left on the mortgage and how big the credit card debt or overdraft are. He has told me roughly in the past, but that's it. Also, once I start legal proceedings, I think H will take it as open warfare.

I also look around at the family home, which is really cosy and nice, with all my things in it, and can't believe that I might be expelling myself from it. I know my ds, for example, would be massively focused on staying in his current bedroom and not moving at all, regardless of what happens around him. Everyone will see me as unnecessarily upsetting the apple cart . And I might lose them in the process.

because I don't think he is going to change

You think?

I feel for you. I lived with a passive aggressive. They destroy you completely.

The odd part about all of this is that I feel H might be receptive if I were to try to communicate with him

Or you could just bang your head off a brick wall for the rest of your life...

but do I really want to go back to the status quo, because I don't think he is going to change

No

and I am always going to feel unloved and insecure?

Yes, you are.

It sounds to be as if you are paralysed by fear of divorcing him. I suspect that's why you've put up with the abuse for years.

Divorce will be difficult but not necessarily the "absolute hell" you describe. I think you are catastrophising. This is why it's so important to get legal advice, particularly around your right to stay in the family home and possibly get an occupation order.

I think you need to gather your strength, get the support you need, and do what you have to do (i.e. divorce the bastard) not only for your own sake but also for the sake of the children. Their home environment is not healthy for them. You talk about upheaval for them but it will be 10000% times worth it because the outcome will be that are not living in an abusive household.

"Everyone will see me as unnecessarily upsetting the apple cart"

Do you see what's happened? Your husband's narrative is that everything is your fault, not his. By your own account, your children have accepted (and will accept) this narrative. It sounds like you've accepted it too. Do you realise how unhealthy that is?

When a relationship ends it's not always someone's "fault" (sometimes it just doesn't work out) and there is usually responsibility on both sides. However, in the case of an abusive relationship, I would lay the blame firmly on the abuser, although they would never accept or admit being to blame, of course.

TLDR: If you divorce it won't be your fault. It will be his fault for abusing you for years. It's vital that you and your children get your heads around that.

This is a half life. Any other life is better than that.

Your kids need to see what a real loving relationship is like, you are giving them the idea that this freaky set up is normal.

Divorce, whatever happens you will be happier than you are now.

You might eventually meet somebody who will love and adore you and actually respect you and treat you like an equal. That is what you should be teaching your kids.

Also, this might sound counter-intuitive, but the very fact that you are so terrified of his reaction to a divorce is a crystal-clear sign that you must divorce him. Your decision to stay in the marriage has been driven by fear. No-one should stay married to someone they're afraid of.

DV services and the law exist to support and protect you. Use them.

I hope you don't end up like my mother.

She and my father are in their 70's now. She stayed with him despite similar behaviour to your H's. She has been medicated all her life just to get through the day and to be able to sweep her misery under the carpet.

They now live in a bubble of their own dysfunction. Their dc live only a couple of miles away but do only awkward duty visits at xmas and birthdays. They hardly know their own grandchildren who, being the astute young people that they are, sussed them out as negative joy suckers a long time ago and distanced their own selves.

My father saw off any support my mother could have leaned on in the form of family and friends with his rages and insistence that everyone had to go back to normal after one of them. My childhood was a series of lurching from one public embarassment to another and wishing that he would just fuck off and leave us alone.

The thing is, although my father's behaviour is the root of all this, my mother chose to stay and not protect her children from it. She chose him over them. Now she is left with a rapidly ageing man whose attitude towards her never improved and virtually alone with it. She has been depressed for as long as I can remember.

Don't be her

Op your kids dont deserve to live in this environment. Leave him.

I'd have ditched him years ago. I would struggle to fancy someone who treats me so badly, though.

I think you already know the answer to your question, why are you wasting any more of your life on him.
You could be so much happier than you are.
Don`t worry about the kids they will adapt to whatever the situation turns into just be honest with them.

You will not be putting a bomb in your children's stability as living like this will be affecting them and is setting them a terrible example of how to live.
Get out and breath easy

Op, Another Emma and others have given you some great advice. No-one is saying it will be easy but you need to start the wheels in motion. He sounds devious and so you will need to box clever. Before you see your Solicitor, you need to take copies of everything and put them back in exactly the same place. Even if you don't think it will be relevant just take everything. Others will come along and be able to guide you. Please do this for yourself and your children. Stay strong.

I honestly don't know how you stand it, it's not eve half a life, it's a shit one. The man has been abusing you for years, there's no love, no kindness, just verbal abuse and your poor children have had to suffer this too; just awful, please get out now before any more damage is done to them.

I can't think of one reason why you would stay; I guarantee you when the opportunity arrives, he will shaft you good and proper anyway, the man is full of contempt; I don't even call this a relationship; it's a bully and a victim, you don't have to carry on OP and allow him to dictate your future, do something and take control back, you are more than capable.

No one should have to live like this, you have had some great advice here about leaving him which is exactly what you should do. Something you said really stood out to me
I think he genuinely forgets his angry outbursts as they are so much a part of his character. So he has no understanding of how devastating they can be, and sees no reason to apologise

I remember thinking like this once. He does remember, he does know, he just doesn't care. He doesn't think there are consequences for his actions. You deserve a better life than this, time to start creating it for yourself and your children

Prick.
Divorce.
No question. Out he goes.
He needs a good kick in the bollocks.

pretty sure OP that you have had several threads about your Husband before. Take the advice given then and now and leave!

Start with ... Seeking solicitor's advice. Then telling him, Can we have a chat on X day?

And start talking about dividing assets and the logistics of splitting up based on what your solicitor advised. Suggest a mediator because you don't both want to waste money solicitors (even if you don't mean it).

Be calm when he blows us. Act like he is the crazy loon... Where did he think the marriage was heading when he refused to engage in a conversation for months at a time?

See his reaction when he calms down and realises you might actually leave his sorry ass. What he does will tell you whether you're heading for divorce or you both want to try to salvage something first.

Counselling is good for divorcing amicably if both parties can independently realise they don't want to be in the marriage. Less time spent playing victim / blaming and more time focusing on how to get the kids through it best you both can. Probably a far fetched dream based on your OP, but only you know.

Can he just change the locks and refuse access if you don't own the house? Anyone know?
If he can legally do that then you might be better to do what you can with paperwork, get ready to go and then hit him with it. Rather than him just locking you out with everything in his house.
I realise for purposes of the settlement the house would be viewed as a marital asset.

Your H is just like my exH. The rages were dreadful and destroyed the marriage in the end. Like you I still loved him and felt that if only this stopped things would be fine. Well they didn't stop and eventually I did what you are doing and detached. It was so hard but the phrase 'fake it til you make it' was very useful. Eventually I accepted the marriage was over and that nothing would ever improve because H felt he had the right to talk to me as he did. Again no apologies or retractions.

I eventually told him I was starting divorce proceedings which he didn't believe until the paperwork landed on the mat.

The DCs are most likely to want to stay with you. The house not being in your name is irrelevant, everything goes into the marital pot and is divided on a 50/50 basis normally but because the DC will probably stay with you, you will keep the house until they reach 18 or leave full time schooling. Then the house may be sold and he would get his share, minus what you have paid. Simplified financial division, because there is child support, pensions and so on to look at.

Gather financial information, bank accounts, savings, solicitors advice and then tell your H you are filing for divorce. It may possibly be his wake up call but I doubt it because it's usually too ingrained.

"Can he just change the locks and refuse access if you don't own the house?"

No. See Citizens Advice link that I shared up thread.

Exploded. He can't change the locks but it's not illegal, it's a civil matter. Wife would have to go to court for an order which would cost money. Even breaking open the house could be classed as criminal damage If it's reported by the H. It's a vile thing to do and only the lowest sink to that level.

He's not sounding like a prince among men though so I'm just wondering if she should be antipating the worst.

Assuming this actually is the OP finally gearing up to take action.

Thanks a lot for all your messages. I really appreciate them. I am too tired to respond tonight, but do have many related questions and thoughts and will post tomorrow.