Are we better off alone?

[darknessontheedgeoftown]

I sometimes wonder if men and women aren't meant to be together not in the marriage children forever sense anyway. It isn't compulsory to be together and there are so so many complications. I sometimes think just stay alone and try to be kind.. I'm probably wrong..I usually am.

SheFeedsYou that articulates what I was trying to say, better and more in depth. Curiously this is one area where young and early middle aged men who had a Dad who wasn't like the stereotype are at an advantage in a developmental sense. I also think having encountered a certain amount of Alpha male types in career one, then far more fundamentally decent, striving, sociable, caring and average earning men in career 2 that I can see how a high functioning woman would find the latter a more attractive prospect than the former. That's why it's so sad when some men think they have to shoehorn themselves into high earning careers and treat others like dirt to live out a macho fantasy which doesn't even appeal to the kind of woman they'd, in their natural state, appeal to. And yes, the MRA drivel and lots of politically worrying excrescences, from terrorism to prejudice, come from male fear of not being able to live up to the script they think has been preordained for them. I'm not naive enough to think there aren't women who still very much desire a traditional alpha male figure, fine each person to their own, but this claptrap that everyone wants that and only that and is deviant or weird of they want something else is hurtful.

We'd need an alternative society to move away from marriage. One in which we lived in small social groups in which children were nurtured in common, and relationships were less lasting and not faround childcare. I think it's mostly inequality that produces misery (beyond health).

I'm not naive enough to think there aren't women who still very much desire a traditional alpha male figure, fine each person to their own, but this claptrap that everyone wants that and only that and is deviant or weird of they want something else is hurtful.

Yes, absolutely.

It seems very much that women can choose from a number of 'femininities', but there is still only one predominantly acceptable discourse of masculinity and men who position themselves outside of that are often ridiculed by wider society or regarded with suspicion.

I also had a non-traditional upbringing - my dad, having done National Service was a 50/50 contributor to the housework and childcare; he did ironing, cooking, taking us children out alone etc etc.

When I grew up and started going out with men I became increasingly aware how rare my childhood had been, with men seemingly unable to work a washing machine/hoover/cooker. If I hadn't been brought up with my hands-on dad, I may well have believed that something about the XY chromosome made males incapable of working white goods!

If I'm honest, I find men of my age/generation a big disappointment (I'm early 40's). I know very few who pull their weight at home & in family life.

Yet most of the women I know are intelligent, degree-educated women with professional careers, who are doing the majority of the childcare & housework. It all seems to change when children come on the scene, and what was once an equal relationship becomes very unbalanced.

Like the PP, my dad was ahead of his time, in the 70's/80's - a really involved parent who contributed at home, and that has been my example.

I think men are struggling to evolve & probably preferred the 50's style set-up, where they were greeted at the door after work with a G&T and dinner on the table.

I hate being alone

I also find it incredibly depressing that there are people out there (like those that have posted here) that have been with partners so much that they now enjoy being alone

I'm the exact opposite, God cheated me

God cheated me

Eh?

Eh?

did you read my post? this is just it, other ppl litterally cannot comprehend my predicament

It's the fact that you say that god cheated you. Like you think you're not in a relationship because of god.

well I do believe in God, so yeh

Lol at Uglysoul!

In my experience, the majority of men seem to want their cake and eat it. They want a 50s set up with wife at home cooking/cleaning/childrearing whilst he pursues a range of hobbies at the weekends.
However, during the week wives are to work hard, full time in professional careers. Massive lack of evolving from a lot of men I feel. Although, not all. My Grandad was amazing. He worked 2 demanding jobs, took care of his wife who had a range of health issues, brought up the children, cooked (didn't clean as there wasn't much time!) But he never saw the work as a male/female divide. Very ahead of his time.
Yet, my DH although claims to believe in equality, grumbles when he partakes in any housework, lavishes himself in hobbies and leaves most of the house administration to me!

Last couple of posts have illustrated exactly what I was saying; women who have progressed waiting for men to catch up. And they aren't doing, on the whole.

I'm also early 40s and that's my experience too.

Well I'm in my late 40s and I'd say that there is a spectrum. There has been loads of change and men and women are very different to how things were in the 1950s.
Many women choose to be the primary care giver to children. Why not? And each working part time to allow a men and women 50/50 split on everything work, childcare, housework may be ideal - but it isn't an option financially for most families. So many women prefer that DH works full time.
The problem usually comes when both partners are working full time - and still struggling. It's not just men who haven't adjusted their expectations- women need to as well. Men still see themselves in the provider role - and that's because many women do too. As I heard once, "if she comes home to find him back from his US business trip where he's won the contract, got the bonus and paid off half the mortgage - she's gonna cut him some slack. If he's just back from baby music group and the washing is still unloaded and dinner isn't even started, she's not gonna be planning a special evening"

I'd intended on returning to work full time after DC was born, however the amount of mental energy that goes into running a household efficiently meant that I needed to reconsider. DH seemed completely unaware of and even ignorant to how much there is to do in running a household. On asking him when the cleaning would get done if I was to return to work full time his response was
"we just won't waste any time cleaning."
"You mean we'll hire a cleaner?"
"No, we're not wasting money or time on cleaning."
I was shocked.
In my experience, the role of running a household isn't only a matter of gender, but a role that is completely undervalued and taken for granted by men.
On realising that DH had no intention of helping much with the household jobs, I chose to return to work part time and so succumbed to my gender specific role in society. DH does help out, after realising that jobs don't get completed on my days 'off' with young children, however he resents it and sees himself as "helping." It's very sad and I do wonder if living alone would actually be easier and kinder.

My OH lives alone (when he's not with me) and he manages to clean his house, do the garden, work full time etc. When he comes to my house, however, he doesn't ever offer to help with the cooking or washing up etc (although he does tweak my car, but he enjoys that).

So, he knows the work needs doing, he does his own himself, but when he's here it's almost as though the jobs don't need doing at all. I did wonder if he just didn't like 'muscling in' on my territory, but to not even OFFER to wash up or help cook...?