I need advice on how DH and I can stop getting at each other

[Coffeefacescrub]

There's a lot of love between us but we seem to needle each other a lot. I always feel he's having a go or a dig, he feels the same.

We have a good laugh too, some lovely times and we talk openly.

But this shit really gets to me. I get defensive and upset. He gets 'bored' by it. It feels like a loop.

Any advice?

I feel the first comment was blunt but not patronising.Seems like you are over reacting so start with looking at your behaviour.

It's could be as simple as making yourself not respond for a few minutes, literally biting your tongue until you have a lower level of emotion.You can practice self control, it isn't easy but gets easier the more you do it.

He says something you feel is a needle or a dig.

You need to stay completely calm. You say, do you think I was wrong to ........?

He:

1. Says no, because he wasn't having a needle or a dig but you were being over sensitive. Conversation finished.

1. Says no, because he was but he's a passive aggressive coward and is now backing off big time. Conversation finished for now but repeat every time he does it until he realises it doesn't push your buttons anymore.

1. Says yes. Don't defend yourself, don't argue. Ask questions if you want to. Why do you think that? What do you think I should have done? Don't argue, don't defend yourself. Say, OK, I'll have a think about it. Then think about it. Give it at least 24 hours and then if you still think he's being unreasonable, tell him: I'm not going to ..... because ........ If he argues, don't argue back, don't defend yourself, just repeat, no, I'm not going to. If he won't let it drop, he's probably abusive and you should leave him.

Don't needle and dig at him. If there's a problem, think about it. How important is it? He doesn't stack the dishwasher the same way you do, not important. He flirts with women in front of you, important. If it's important, tell him calmly and completely clearly. Don't get drawn into an argument, don't be distracted by side arguments (yeah, but you were flirting with ......)

Your first response was really really revealing because it was this immediate knee jerk defensive and critical response.

Taking time and thinking before you say anything and remaining totally calm isn't easy but can have a completely transformative effect on your communication (and can also totally wrong foot a tosspot if that's what you're dealing with).

I agree. I don't always think change is about how the other person can adapt to you or take on board all your issues, it's equally about working very hard on yourself to challenge those poor or damaging behaviours. I totally second having an entire new set of coping strategies, something you Perceive as hurtful you can say nothing, walk away and try to process it and you may come to a calmer realisation about what actually happened. If you look into every little comment your partner makes to you and see things in a negative light then you could work on focusing on all the good parts of your relationship daily.
I don't think it was patronising - there are parts of us as adults that sometimes do have an emotional immaturity aspect to them. 'Growing up' is about taking responsibility for them and control so you don't feel helpless

When DH and I were in a rut we wrote down everything we loved about each other on a piece of paper and didn't let the other one see, then we took it in turns to read out each one. It made me realise that all the arguements were meaningless because there was something much deeper underneath it all. That doesn't mean we don't still argue over crap but it helped. We also went to a session of couple councilling and she said that we both want our own way and are used to getting it - it was quite early days in our relationship. It was something that might have been obvious to others but it wasn't to us and it made me realise that him wanting his own way is as valid as me wanting mine and that it's not h trying to piss me off, it's that he thinks he's right just the same way I do. Seeing things from this new perspective made me a lot more forgiving as I didn't take it as a personal dog when we argued.

Dig* when we argued

There is a method used for controlling anxiety that would perhaps be helpful in this situation for both of you. It was all about taking a step back and thinking about your response before you open your mouth. Another one used was think how an invisible third person in the room would see the current situation. What would they advise you to do? Sometimes when in an argument you can't see the wood for the trees. It's better to perhaps walk away from the simmering tension, take time to think and then later when the tension has settled down and things are calm, sit down and say "would you mind if we have a chat about sonething that is bothering me" you then need to be careful that you don't blame shift on to the other person and go on the attack.

This is such a useful thread. Just googled defensiveness and really recognised myself! I need to take a deep breath more often...

Some of the subsequent responses seem useful, but I thought the first response of (paraphrasing) "grow up, just stop doing it" was both somewhat patronising and pretty unhelpful. As if it's just so easy to change a firmly embedded habit. It is easy to fall into unhelpful patterns of behaviour. Harder to break them.

The one we did was run by Nicky and Sila Lee - I expect there are others. Google it.

Thank you all. These replies are so helpful. I woke in the night and thought about them a lot.

While I maintain that the first response wasn't hugely helpful - defensiveness is engrained, and it's not that easy to stop it/grow up - it did me a massive favour, because it does illustrate how quick I am to react.

Clearly, my problem is reacting instead of responding. It probably always has been. I don't pause enough. I don't take a step back. I liken my response to the first reply a bit to how I used to reply to email - very quickly, as if I was totally sure of what that person was saying to me. In fact, often, on reflection, what was being to said to me could be taken several different ways.

So, essentially I always hear criticism. And my antennae is so heightened, that it pings before I even have a chance to consider that a) it's not necessarily criticism, it's just an observation b) even if it is, is it really that big a deal?

I think I probably have very low self-esteem in some ways, while being very robust and quite a brave person in others. I am very hard on myself. My critical voice is very strong and I'm probably expecting it from others.

My husband isn't abusive. He's a top person - very kind and generous, a terrific dad, and a very very supportive partner. I also have some good traits, and we have a pretty fab life together. There is lots of love and laughter.

For the purposes of this thread, the bits that need highlighting are:

He's also difficult to live with (his words), hypercritical (his words) around stupid small, often domestic stuff (his words) and can undermine me (his words). So, it pings my already established antennae.

I'm a control freak with a tendency to want to take over - which irritates the shit out of him, understandably - and i have a fiery temper and knee jerk reactions.

Strangely - and perhaps this is all part of this big growth I am undertaking, and need to take - I've done a lot of work on my parenting over the past few months in this respect. One DC is particularly wilful, probably far too much like me, and pressed all my buttons. I would react, lose my cool and then feel awful. And as a team, DH and I undermined each other, and the DC in question, manipulated the split. I sought parenting help, (for me, as as a team) as I really wanted to become a better parent, and although it is early days, I've been working so hard on walking away, not engaging, etc etc and it's been great. Ace. Much, much better between us all.

This is clearly what I need to do with DH, but for some reason it's much harder. I probably feel less responsible for him, for his feelings, if that makes sense. And we've been together a long time and patterns are seriously hard to break.

But I want our marriage to survive, which is why I'm here. I want to shed this shit! It drives me mad about myself.

To the poster who ask if I have lots of run ins - no. I get along with people well, have some wonderful friendships. I don't have a problem with confrontation but I don't seek it out.

To the poster who asks 'what on earth do I have to be defensive about...' etc, it's just not a logical thing. It's not rational. It's a protective mechanism which you don't think about a lot of the time. It just is. It clearly had a place in my past.

Ironically, work wise, I am in a profession which relies on having the skin of a rhino - needing to rise above constant criticism and subjective opinions and rejection - to get anywhere. I'm pretty successful.

Without shifting any blame elsewhere, I grew up in a family, and culture, where tensions, passions, anger could run quick and high...and then simmer back down, as if nothing had happened, all in the space of ten minutes! It sets a template. But it's not a healthy one.

What is clear is that although I would like him to work on his stuff, I must take full responsibility for mine and if I change, he will follow.

There. I've tried to be as honest as possible.

Op your first response screams that you are the problem. You sound hard.

Wow Op reading your post - and definitely your updates - was like looking in a mirror.... even down to the family element growing up, although for myself I would add my parents (& dad in particular) were always expecting high standards and only acknowledged underachievement, never praised, a which has clearly had a huge impact on my self Image and personality 30yrs later.... I have no real advice other than I ongoing self monitoring with support and approval (of your self) as for me recognition was/is a major part of the process. I find consciously pausing (with focusing on breathing!) helps me not to react so negatively/sensitively always!

I'm still v.highly strung and prone to anxiety, irritability and self blame (jeez I sound lovely don't I!) but am learning about how to handle myself all the time! Incidentally I did have some CBT last year which was a bit helpful and a bit Unhelpful....

Good luck, you guys can make it if you both come from a place of love!

Well done OP. Sounds like you know what you need to do!

You have a lot of work to do on your self control and I think you are aware of that. Now is the hard part about putting it into practice

I have a teen DD who is a lot like you describe you are and over time the behaviours cause a huge fracture in trust and respect. All I can do is modify my own behaviours towards her behaviour. The term 'walking on eggshells' can be relevant because I for one refuse to cow down to her anxiety and need for control and this can cause arguments when I refuse to pander to her demands or apologise for a perceived insult that never occurred. I can tell you it's a tiring exhausting way to live for the other people. It's actually worse when the person appears to have self control in other areas of their life except from with you - because that exactly shows it is something they can control and modify but you can end up feeling that it's your 'fault' and be quite resentful.
I also notice if I change my reactions then this changes DD. I refuse to engage with accusations levelled at me until she is calm and I ensure the language I use is calm but direct with less opportunity to be misinterpreted. I also use calm opportunities to give praise and do not spend time focusing on something that is now in the past. Learning to move on and let things go - especially petty shit is important. I have a scale of 1-10 of things that matter. 1-4 isn't worth reacting over in the moment - can come back to it later. Things of importance of 5-7 may need to be dealt with sooner but still can take a while to be calm and come back to it at the right moment. Serious things 8-10 need to be dealt with immediately but again I would still think it through before I approached it.

If you don't want to do counselling then Google self control techniques because a lot of them are about ground work planning and are very useful

You also need to let go of a lot of the things that hold you back - the need for perfection and order. All that it symbolises is anxiety and control, for instance a tidy perfect house for instance makes you feel internally calm but it's false as it's unrealistic - it will get messy again. You need a new focus, even a diary where you can go write down your frustrations at that time and then come back and think 'ok how can we all stay on top of the house/mess in a constructive way'. We have a rota, that helps too

Yes, I definitely need self-control. That's really helpful.

ANd I need to let things go.

As it happens, my folks were hugely supportive - are still - and very approving, whatever choices I made. I suspect a lot of crap arose from my private school, but that's another thread completely.

Up, I really like your more recent posts. Especially the long one. You are very candid about yourself, and that can only really help. From a personal point of you, I find my husband and I are stuck in an unhealthy rut similar to yours in some ways. It's almost like we are so accustomed to assuming the worst about each other that it's quite hard to not leap straight to that mindset any time we disagree. I think sometimes these things are entrenched habits which are hard to break. Not impossible, obviously, but just it's easier to stay in the groove you've made than is to plough another furrow, so change takes time. You don't always see the outcome over night, like one would understandably always like!

I think that from my point of view, I think the worst of my husband because I don't trust his love for me. He used to be much more attentive, caring, and into me, much more than he seems to be these days. When I ask him, he gives me all the right answers, but his actions don't follow through. It seems to be only in a rare emergency he really comes through for me. The rest of the time he's wrapped up in his own selfishness little world. I wonder if there could be some of that in your relationship?

So because he automatically think the worst of me, and when he is selfish and not giving then I assume the worst about him too. I never used to, but I seem to hold up a mirror and give the same treatment he gives me . It's almost like I want to teach you how it feels so he stops! He doesn't like it, but it doesn't make him stop very long. I live very defensive, sometimes with good reason, and sometimes I should probably just shake it off think he's being a grumpy old bastard. Like you I don't want to LTB, but our communication is terrible and it does have some similarities to your experience, from what it sounds. I like the advice you've been given about dealing with defensiveness, and I will go and google that myself. So thanks for starting the thread, and know that you are not alone. Good luck with trying to improve things between you.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, Changeasgoodasarest.

No, actually, I don't feel that about my own DH. Of course, not every day is a musical, but I'm confident of his love. He still shows me a lot of affection/attention.

Good luck. It's hard, I know, to break patterns

When you say you always hear criticism, are you a tolerant person yourself? How do you cope with people who disagree with you, have different beliefs etc?

Practically, I'd treat it like a diet. Try not to snipe at him or react for an hour, a day, then two days etc etc

Every time he says something that wants to make you rise to the bait, write it down in a list. At the end of each week review this list and speak to him about anything that's still bothering you (chances are it won't be)

You and DH need to read this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Daring-Greatly-Courage-Vulnerable-Transforms/dp/1592408419

Sounds like you are both putting up your defences and you need to find what they are protecting first so that you can replace them with a healthier response. Cbt thereapy can also help you here.