Can I ask you what you think might have caused this?

[January2017]

Sorry if this ends up reading like a weird thread.

A family who are quite middle class insofar as income, home, holidays are concerned, but the wife is from a very difficult background. There is a large extended family in the wife's background - cousins and aunts and so on.

The husband and wife try for children years without success. Husband is happy to have a child free life but the wife is determined to have children. They are looking into adoption and then have two children, a boy and a girl.

After having her children the wife seems to find it hard. She rarely, if ever, plays with them. She screams a lot and both children are quite frightened of her. They spend most of the time with their father and they are very happy when this is the case. the wife uses her own cousins and aunts to look after her children regularly, and they seem to resent this and take it out on the children. However, the wife does love the children.

She drinks heavily and is dismissed from work for drinking there and being drunk in front of a class (she is a school teacher.)

She is volatile and will scream how ashamed she is of her children, how they disgust her, how she wishes they were other children (she will talk about other children a lot and tell her own children exactly why they are much better than her own) but also cuddle them and say she loves them.

She will lash out when angry, and both her children try to kill themselves before they are 13.

What's wrong with her?

Undiagnosed and untreated PND.
Abusing alcohol as a way of self medicating due to untreated PND.

I'm no expert. Bit that was my first thought.

If it was you, OP, I see where you're coming from. It felt very important that I understand what had happened to us. It is very hard to move on from such a bewildering and frightening childhood. I have massive compassion for you and I understand why you might need the understanding and recognition that would come with a 'diagnosis' (even if you did nothing with that information outside your own healing process).

Sounds like my DM. She was severely abused growing up (something I didn't know till my late teens) and it affected everything. She wanted kids, and is a wonderful teacher to children she doesn't have to raise herself. But when it came to my DB and I. Woo. Verbal and emotional abuse. To this day and we are both in are mid 30's.

She isn't an alcoholic but when she gets drunk you can expect to be either yelled at or ignored.

It's a difficult relationship BUT I know now what she went through as a child and she has been supportive of me seeking help for my depression and ADHD (though I wish she would get for herself)

Growing up she was a SAHM but it didn't suit her. As much as she wanted and loved kids, being a SAHM brought out the worst in her and we all suffered.

Things got far better when she got a job. Which is why I will never stop working.

Thanks, human

Difficult because obviously I didn't know her before. But I sense it was more than pnd.

A v. good friend of mine had a similarly unkind screamy mother. She had mental health issues and was later diagnosed as bi-polar which was brought on by trauma (death of her first child I think) though it might have been post-natal depression. Its definitely a mental health issue - but impossible to diagnose in the absence of your mother.

If it is weighing heavily on you perhaps counselling would be a good idea.

I did quite a lot of research before I realised that she had a serious mental illness. I was probably motivated in a similar way to what led you to post here.

She was an alcoholic too, which clouded matters. But first time I read about Borderline Personality Disorder I cried with relief.

Part of the experience of being brought up by someone with an untreated personality disorder is also being manipulated, gaslighted, told constantly that you're difficult/too sensitive/dishonest, and just not being allowed to have any feelings of your own. All of which leads you to massively question whether your feelings and memories of your childhood or abuse are valid or even exist at all. We need the validation of a 'diagnosis' for this reason, I believe.

If you do decide to continue to explore this, I would recommend you seek out literature which is written for adult children of mentally ill parents, at least to begin with.

I really do wish you all the best!

Look up attachment disorder.
Trauma or neglect below the age of say four leaves the person unable to regulate their emotions, unable to sustain the intensity of a relationship, and is often retriggered by parenting as the attempt to bond with the baby is interfered with by parent's own issues. There can be a strong drive to replicate a 'proper' family, but little ability to maintain it.
People self medicate using alcohol.

Does that feel right?

Attachment disorder in children often leads to (or is diagnosed as) Personality Disorder in adults.

I've wondered sometimes if I have attachment disorder myself.

human it's so true what you say, about not having feelings of your own.

PND? Mental health? Hidden alcoholism pre children? Is this lady still alive to ask? Anyone else who could be asked about their interpretation of it all?

To me, my mother was very unmaternal, cold and not remotely touchy feely, but claims to love kids. She was a nurse and apparently had a fantastic bedside manner. I never saw it. My brother's recollection of her is very different - he remembers warm hugs, cuddles on the sofa and empathy. No idea why we are so different in our memories, only 3 years between us.

She's been dead, for quite a long time now to be honest. 20 years nearly. Alcohol killed her. But because of this I sometimes doubt that what happened happened. But I know I've hardly any memories of her doing anything with me. That seems unusual.

Oh january no wonder you are struggling and if you didnt find it hard to make attachments i would be amazed.
You will never understand why but you can try to reach a place where you are able to lay it down a bit.
None of it was your fault and you did nothing to deserve it . It is no reflection on you and does not define you today unless you allow it to.
What about your dad and sibling can they talk it through with you ? Sometimes it helps to have people who were there confirm that it is indeed as bad as you remember it so that you know you are not going mad!
Your mother was a bad mother for god knows what reason and i dont think you will ever fully understand your childhood so counselling etc is a good idea to help you move on.
I really hope there are good things in store for you this year x

Sound like BPD to me.

I had a difficult, quite traumatic childhood too, and also feel like sometimes it couldn't have been real. Maybe I frabricated or exaggerated it in my own head? I think with the passing of time it can feel even more surreal and dream like.

So sorry that you endured such a childhood.

My dad was amazing until my mum died, then he just became very distant, sold the house, wouldn't have much to do with me. He's dead now, too.

There is luckily now some excellent writing both online and as books which is written for adult survivors of parents who had serious personality disorders.

They are useful because they provide validation, understanding and insight into experiences we went through when we were so young. But most importantly, they help us to learn more about how it has affected us, and how we can go forward and heal.

'Toxic Parents' is an excellent book (Susan Forward) and was a helpful starting place for me.

But most of all, take your time. This will be a long process but you can move forwards and lead your life as a happy woman with unusual insight and sensitivity because of your experiences. The fact that you are looking for answers and seeking to understand in an objective sense (hence the need for diagnosis) what you've been through is a hugely positive sign for your future, I think.

Your mother's behavior was exactly like my own mother's when I was growing up, the screaming, never playing with us, ignoring or ridiculing anything we said, us never being good enough regardless of our academic achievements etc., but also affectionate, when we were children, although when I was a teenager she just hated me with a passion and that was it. She screamed abuse at my father a lot also. She was also a teacher. Not an alcoholic though, but alcohol dependent.

I have thought endlessly about why she was like this, her childhood was difficult, she had a cruel father and a cold mother. I think she was depressed a lot of the time, we all were. But why so cruel? And if she couldn't help herself why not seek therapy rather than allow herself to harm innocent children? I'll never understand. She asked me a couple of years ago why we don't have a close relationship (and claimed I wouldn't care if she died). For the first time ever I told her she was awful to us when we were growing up, she didn't remember but blandly apologised. I don't get it, but maybe a personality disorder is the answer, as others have suggested.

Not an alcoholic though, but alcohol dependent

Sorry, sans. I don't get this. Someone who is alcohol dependent is an alcoholic...

Also, imo trauma can look remarkably like a personality disorder. Mind you, I'm not a professional.

Op, have you had any therapy? I hope so. You've a lot to unpack there

I knew someone with a very frightening and disordered childhood who had (paid for) extended consultations with a psychologist. It helped me a lot to understand what had been going on.

BUT info doesn't deal with the trauma imo. It helps but it doesn't actually heal iyswim.

Helped me? it helped HIM (I swear that wasn't a freudian slip haha!)

Mind you, I had a frightening and disordered childhood and had a lot of therapy.