Help me process this comment / relationship...

[dingdongmerrilyonhiiiiiiii]

I'm at Mum & Stepdad's for tonight and tomorrow morning, with DH and toddler DD.

For context, Stepdad and mum have been married for about 7 years. He's in his late 60s. I'm in my 20s. He has a history of behaviour that's a bit offensive when he's been drinking. He's previously made comments criticising my mum to me and putting down DH, for example. Always just a bit nasty and unpleasant, nothing majorly shocking. His behaviour has worn down my two siblings; one now visits once a year and one refuses to ever visit.

A few times I've found him a little inappropriate - once he looked me up and down and told me I was "an incredibly attractive woman, just like your mother" - and he'll go in for shoulder rubs and lots of kisses on the face. Again, it's the sort of thing that could be perceived as borderline, but it makes me uncomfortable.

At times when I or others directly challenge him in the moment, or don't reciprocate the physical affection, he acts very upset and hurt, and implies that it's unreasonable to dislike his behaviour. On other occasions he's become fully angry and created a big uncomfortable scene and subsequent atmosphere. In the 8 or so years I've known him, there's never been a constructive discussion about how his behaviour impacts me / others and so, rightly or wrongly I now usually take the path of least resistance and ignore / bat stuff off.

Tonight he's a bit drunk. I'm wearing a slogan tshirt. I was walking past and he started trying to read it - made a big charade of being unable to - then asked me what it said because "I can't read it because of your titties". I muttered something about that being inappropriate, and walked into the next room, and he called after me that I was off in a huff.

I don't know if I'm over-reacting, but I'm fuming. I feel like that's a horrible, demeaning way to speak to me. Maybe it's the straw breaking the camel's back. I'm worried about my daughter growing up and hearing that sort of shit from him. I'm thinking of all the stuff we've tried to ignore or brush off for the sake of the peace, and I just feel like it's never going to be different.

I'm not sure what I'm asking. Does anyone have a helpful perspective? Am I over reacting? Is there a constructive way to handle this?

God I'm angry on your behalf. What a creep your stepfather is. It is in no way acceptable on any level and in fact he would get himself arrested if he carried on like this to a stranger or at work. Massive line crossing.
Please don't second guess your reaction, it's awful that you've had to endure this at all.
I would fully encourage you to go NC with him. Who cares how he feels about it? He's never respected your feelings.

Yep. You're right *runrabbit.
*
Dd was (finakly)

Oops accidental post. Was going to say we'd both drunk alcohol so couldn't drive away, so leaving wasn't a realistic option, so I don't think it's fair to say I talked DH out of his initial reaction.

But otherwise you (and all the rest of you) are making a lot of sense.

Titties?!!!!

Gross.

Eww, just eww. If your siblings rarely visit because of this man's behaviour, it really should have been a wake up call for your mother but it wasn't. It's your Mums prerogative to stay with him if she wants but you don't have to pay the price by exposing you and your family to this arsewipe.

I put up with this shit when I was younger and there's no fucking way that I would let (DD however old she was) be exposed to it, let alone expect her to normalise it.

Let this be the very last time that you make excuses for both this creep and your Mum. You are worth so more than this and you owe it to yourself and to your children, to acknowledge it.

What's he like sober? Would he recognise his behaviour as inappropriate if it was pointed out to him?

Is this in front of your Mum?

Sorry, that's loads of questions! And I know his behaviour isn't your responsibility. It seems from your posts like you want to keep being able to go, but it's becoming less likely...

Yuk- all kinds of wrong!!

You've tried not making a scene and it's not got any better. Might be time to try making a scene instead - or at least saying to him politely but directly that he needs to cut it out. I spent years being polite about my fil's rude (but not this rude!) comments because "he didn't mean it that way". Then, for a short while after I broke up with dh, I was just too angry to care and said what I thought. He started being less disrespectful, the world didn't stop turning and I still get a Christmas card. Our relationship has improved no end. If you're a people pleaser like me I know it feels all wrong, but really it was like lancing a boil.

I agree with the pp who said it might help your mum see through the fog.

Very different to a stranger in a bar OP - as a PP said, the standard for a family member hosting you should be much higher - especially one who holds a pseudo parental role!

And titties is beyond revolting

Could you and your DH talk to him together - on an occasion when no one has been drinking?

I would wait for the right moment, then very calmly in a voice dripping with disgust, inform the old fool that, whilst you have sucked up his inappropriate behaviour thus far, laughing and finding him pathetic, you are now no longer prepared to see your lovely mum be treated with such total disrespect. This actually would trouble me more than my own feelings.

Oh just fuck him right off. You owe him nothing and he's a creep. You can tell him those comments are inappropriate and if he makes them again you will leave. Then if he makes them again, leave. Like your siblings. It doesn't matter if he's a genuine perv or just trying to be witty, he's trampling your boundaries, making you uncomfortable and being a creep.

Getting overtly offended doesn't work with these types. They'll see it as proof of their edginess or your own failing to appreciate it. Just make it clear you won't put up with it, and don't. Losing their audience is the only thing that works. And if it doesn't, at least you don't have to endure it.

It doesn't matter why he does it, or what his intentions are. It makes you feel uncomfortable and your sisters feel uncomfortable. You've all told him. Your mother has told him. Your siblings have altered their visiting patterns because of it and he knows it. If his reasons for doing it were misunderstood he would have been mortified by the hurt and upset he caused, stopped it immediately and apologised profusely. He hasn't. Instead he has twisted it round so that he is the victim. And that's because he enjoys making you feel uncomfortable. He enjoys the kick it gives him having that type of control and separating your mother from her children.

I'd have two chats tomorrow OP

Firstly alone with your mother where you point out the above.

Then with your mum, step dad and DH where you all point out to step dad that his behaviour- whatever his intention - is pervy and vile, and that he either stops it immediately or the next time it happens you will walk out immediately and never have contact with him ever again, and that him putting your mother, as well as you, in that position makes you question his love and respect for her as surely if he loved and respected her he would want her DDs to feel comfortable and welcome in her home and not uncomfortable and uneasy. If he starts any bullshit where he turns it round so he's the victim then just say that this is the problem you were referring to about him not respecting you or your mother and walk out.

Offering a man's perspective (I'm a Dad and Stepdad) - this guy is way out of line. Totally inappropriate and he's being disrespectful to you and, indirectly, your Mum. If you wouldn't expect this from a stranger you shouldn't have to tolerate it from a relative, although I do get that confronting reli's can be difficult.

Unless he's a complete Neanderthal he must realise he's out of line here. I agree with Deathstare on presenting a united front with your Mum to clearly mark the boundaries and consequences for breaking them.

OP, disgusting people like him rely on nice people like you turning a blind eye in order to keep the peace. He has probably had years of practise, and enjoys seeing your confused discomfort.

I would have a quiet word, or ask your dh to have a quiet word and leave him in no doubt that he needs to completely revise his approach to you.

If it happens again, roar 'what did you just say?' until all eyes are on him.

Thanks again for all your advice. It's honestly been extremely helpful. I hadn't realised quite how enmeshed I've become in this whole dysfunctional dynamic.

I think SD became remorseful after Tittiesgate, because for the rest of the evening he was attempting to engage me with over-the-top flattery and kisses and offers of drinks etc. I went to bed hopeful that he'd realised he'd majorly crossed a line.

However, the next morning we all sat round and did presents together, and when DM unwrapped our gift to her (a sheer, fine top that you'd wear over a dress or cami) he immediately said in a bright, jokey voice "oh how lovely, you can wear that without a bra." So we were right back in this horrible, awkward place. DM gestured to my toddler dd and said "you can't say that in front of her" quite sternly, which I felt was a monumental missing of the point.

Then SD got up and left the room, clearly cross to have been chastised. When he came back in a few minutes later, DM gave him a cuddle and brought him presents to open. It was like she was carefully managing a stroppy, sensitive teenager who was on the brink of a meltdown.

We packed up and left (which was always the plan) with pleasantries and hugs goodbye. I appreciate that the general view on here was to be direct and immediate in my response to him, but I felt that the scene that would inevitably produce wasn't something I was willing to dump onto DM on Christmas day. I wanted to have some time to reflect and to communicate my decision(s) to her in the best way I can.

And that's where I'm at. I'm going to talk on the phone with her tomorrow and see if she she'll engage with a discussion about it. If we can avoid a completely NC situation, that would be my preference. I love my mum and want to have some sort of relationship with him as her partner, if we can find a healthy way to do that. DH has suggested saying we're no longer able to visit if SD has been drinking, which I think could be a good plan in theory. He's always drinking when we visit, and his unpleasant behaviour does seem to develop in proportion to his drunkenness. I'm just not sure how we can communicate that to him in a way that doesn't generate massive fall-out for mum.

Phewph, what a long update.

Good on you, OP. But in your communication with this creep, do make it clear that it's not a case of this being inappropriate just to his stepdaughter, but an inappropriate and horrid way of interacting with women in general, especially with his wife present. If he won't accept it, don't feel any obligation to allow yourself to be sexually harassed in order to please someone. Women are brought up to think it's their responsibility not to make a fuss, be good sports, humour the men etc etc. You're much too young to have to put up with that crap and you have to set an example to your child, so don't be afraid to fuck him right off if you have to.

When he came back in a few minutes later, DM gave him a cuddle and brought him presents to open. It was like she was carefully managing a stroppy, sensitive teenager who was on the brink of a meltdown.

I think SD became remorseful after Tittiesgate, because for the rest of the evening he was attempting to engage me with over-the-top flattery and kisses and offers of drinks etc. I went to bed hopeful that he'd realised he'd majorly crossed a line

I don't think that's remorse OP. You said the flattery and kisses were over the top so I think it's part of the same inappropriate behaviour.

He's always drinking when we visit, and his unpleasant behaviour does seem to develop in proportion to his drunkenness

I'm assuming he wasn't drunk though in the morning when your mum opened her present?

Could you and your sisters take your mum out on her own and raise this with her together? A united front could be useful in showing your mum how much this is affecting you all.

Totally agree that DM is handling it very differently from how I would, and it doesn't seem healthy to me. But it's not really for me to evaluate or judge that; the only thing I can control is my own boundaries and choices, right?

Had a constructive phone call with DM today. She's decided we won't visit them overnight or at big 'occasion' dates any more. I said we are only happy to see them now if he's sober, which she said she's already told him will be the case. So we're on the same page in those ways. (Somebody asked if he was drunk in the morning when we did presents - honestly I don't know. DH thought he'd been drinking already; DSSis thought he was badly hungover; I wondered if he might have still been drunk from the night before. Perhaps none of the above.)

She's very clear that she wants to be the one talking to him about it, which is fair enough. From what she's said, I'm not sure how much he's really engaging with the underlying issue(s) / taking any responsibility, and how much he's just accepting that she's putting her foot down and thinking she's being unreasonable, iyswim.

So I'm left in quite a pessimistic place about the future of our relationships with them and that dd is going to have this odd, restricted experience of them as grandparents. (But v grateful for in-laws who make up for it so many times over by being amazing.) I'm worried about DM and her ever-shrinking world, but she's making choices with her eyes open, I think, so not much I can do. Feeling flat and sad and pretty glum.

I don't think ignoring his nasty behaviour has helped and that has probably made him think he DM get away with it. It's difficult, as you obviously want to retain a relationship with your mum, but I would pull him up on every single remark in future. With luck, you'll never have to see him again when he's been drinking. He sounds extremely inappropriate.