Help with a very old secret letter

[Mindtrope]

I have an old letter 1903, it has been found recently, and may explain some unknown parentage but we can hardly read it. In fragile but good condition, but written in such archaic / florid script we can hardly read. Is there a service we can use?

There's a Holyrood Place in Dunfermline, over the Firth of Forth. Any connection to there, OP?

Not that I know of re Dunfermline.

Here's the appropriate page from the street-by-street section of the Post Office directory for Edinburgh 1902-3: digital.nls.uk/directories/browse/pageturner.cfm?id=83720656&mode=fullsize

No Holyrood Place as such. A couple of people listed at Holyrood Palace, but they might be officials. Holyrood Terrace is in Abbeyhill, which runs round the Palace grounds.

Not all householders ended up being listed in the PO directories - I imagine they didn't return the slips or something. But you could try looking through this collection at digital.nls.uk/directories/browse/pageturner.cfm?id=91168907 for a few years after your letter, in case your people turn up. (There's an alphabetical-by-person section, and an alphabetical-by-street).

(I'm not well today so won't brave reading. Looks like you're all going great guns though!)

By the way, if it will help you can download your grandfather's birth certificate from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk.

Scottish birth certificates are very informative and even when the parents aren't married will usually include details of the father (unlike Eng&W certs).

Scottish marriage certs also include details of both parents of the bride/groom.

There is a Holyrood in N Ireland.

Mindtrope

If all else fails and you are prepared to pay for an expert I would expect Dr Audrey Giles will be able to help you. She's a leading expert and used frequently in court cases.

www.gdll.co.uk/dr-audrey-giles.html

Isn't it Hollywood in Northern Ireland?

If/when someone unscrambles it can you let us know?
I don't want to die of curiosity.

Ancestry.com gives a free trial. Just remember to cancel it before you are charged.
It gives online access to old censuses which give details of who was living in houses, their occupations, age and relationship to each other. Also birth records but not certificates, same with marriage and death.
Well that's for England and pretty sure it's the same for Scotland as think a friend was searching there.
If you do it start off with quite a broad search as quite often dates are wrong, names misspelled etc.

Sorry it is www.ancestry.co.uk/
and a 14 day free trial.

There's a Hollywood in Ireland, too. Wicklow maybe?

The censuses for Scotland are available as follows:
1841-1901 available as transcriptions (of varying quality) on Ancestry (subscription)
1841-1911 available in the original images on Scotland's People (pay per view).
1881 census available FREE as a transcription from the LDS (can search this via Scotland's People site).

There's a minimum number of credits one can buy on Scotland's People, so it might fit well to use it for BMD certs & the 1911 census.

Hi OP,

I've had a go. It's not the most tricky I've seen, the writer uses a lot of informal script which makes his meaning tricky, but there's some common tropes that shed a bit more light on his meaning.

To read the translation below, anything in [ ] is added in to make it readable to a modern audience, although grammar was less important in 1903! ANything in ( ) is my annotation to denote meaning and anything with (nom.) after it denotes it's a name of a person. Hope it helps!

All going well. Back again to your old home again in Blane (brane? Braie?), like Foome (nom.)
So hoofe (I’m going) now I’ve found all things going all right. I was up seeing Mrs Knott today and she is very busy house hunting so I think they will take a room in Holyrood Place. What do think of that, gets us all together, 8 laws (inlaws, also used at this time to mean siblings) you have. Have to [go] because me (I’m) not wailing (leaving) early but to tell you the truth we find hardly time to get our finals (rocks off ) how it is work and sleep but when to start. I am no sly Stoford (nom.) (I presume the name of a bloke famous for his way with the ladies!) so I have never got a scrup (glance at) of a pin heather (pin heather was a popular term for a good looking, married woman)

Sorry, posted too soon! This is the literal translation in a modern script:
Everything’s going well. You’re back again to your old home in Blane (Brane, Braie? Not sure), just like Mr. Froome (nom., men of the household were referred to by their last name only so it’s not a leap to suspect he means this). So, I’m going to stop writing now I’ve found things are going alright for you. I was up seeing Mrs Knott today and she is very busy house hunting, so I think they will take a room in Holyrood Place. What do you think of that? It gets us all together, you’ve got 8 siblings! I have to go now because… I’m not leaving early to tell you the truth. We hardly find time to try it on with the ladies, it’s all just work and sleep so where do we start?? I’m no Sly Stoford, so I never even get to eye up a good looking woman! (this last part is a joke, he’s saying he has to go not because he’s leaving early and has to, but because he wants to stop writing letters and go and try it on with a woman )

My guess is this is a difficult letter. The writer is contacting an estranged member of the family. I personally think this is one of the children of Mr Knott (it wasn’t uncommon to refer to your parents by mr or mrs LastName) making contact with an illegitimate brother he’s found out about and is hoping to bond with. He drops in the fact the receiver has 8 siblings as if it’s news, then quickly goes on to a joke to smooth over that bit of news. He’s also approval seeking when he asks “What do you think of that?” as if he knows he’s bringing something up that might be delicate, and hopes this person is happy to have found an accepting family. My guess is Mr Knott fathered the receiver of the letter illegitimately, and has a further 8 children with Mrs Knott, one of which is the writer of this letter 

Banana. RESPECT.

You're a bloody genius.

OK, my best crack (drawing heavily on other people's versions):

[1st image]
I do ?? you got all safe back again to your old home again No place like home. So I hope you found all things going all right I was up seeing Mrs Knott today and she is very busy house hunting so I think they will be take a room in Holyrood Place. What do you think of that ??? ?us? all ?together?

So you will have to excuse me in not writing early but to tell you the truth we have hardly time to get our meals now(?how?) it is work and sleep But when I do start I am not ?esely?[easily] stoped So I have never ?got? a scrap of a ?pen? ?neither?

[2nd image]
if they are doing me they are far away for I ?could? get plenty of them if I was wanting them and you know But never mind Mrs Watson they will need me before I need them But I don't like that dirty way in doing things [hole in paper] But Mrs Watson ?keep? well in the know ?over? her and ?fish? well and let me know I will never let them know where I got my information they will never think of you giving me news I will change my hand of write on the envelopes so as the postman will not know where the letters are from and so that will keep them all in the dark So dear Mrs Watson I have not much
[ends]

I'm afraid the second bit of the letter (the bit with the hole in it) is a bit more sinister.

If they risk doing me they were far away. If I could get plenty of them if twos wanting (not enough) then and you’d find out but never. I paid as has Watson they were found out before and wed them but I don’t like that dirty way in doing it missing bit. Watson and (???) were in the knowledge, her and Fish well and let me know. I will never let them know it here. I got the information they will know or think of giving me hear. I will change my fined of write on the envelope and (????) the post. Mam will not know where the letters are from and that will keep them all in the dark so he has Watson, I have hot truths.

In a modern script:
If they are going to attack me, I’m far away. I could get plenty of copies if two is not enough and then they’d find out, I would pay for it as would Watson. They were found out before and wed, but I don’t like that dirty way of doing it. Watson and (???) had had sex and knew she was pregnant, his girlfriend and Fish (nom.) let me know thinking I will never tell anyone else. I’ve got this information and I'd do it for Watson, they’d never think it was me who told. I will change my handwriting on the envelope and post it. My mother will not know where the letters are from and that will keep them all in the dark so Watson will know, I know his secret.

If my theory is right, then the brother is threatening to tell his Mum about the illegitimate brother. He's saying he'll get himself far away (army possibly) and then write to his mother, changing his handwriting so she doesn't know who the letter is from. He talks about writing multiple letters if 2 won't be enough in case they are intercepted.

He also talks about someone called Watson who got a girl pregnant and was forced to marry her. This was kept a secret from the rest of the family, but Watson told the letter writer in confidence that the bride was preggers before the marriage. It's a stretch, but I believe Watson is another sibling. One of the eight and the brother who's writing this letter is furious at his father. He thinks it's Hypocritical of the father to punish his son, while he got away with fathering an illegitimate child in his youth and didn't have the marry the mother. Problem is, no one knows about Watson so to expose the father would risk also exposing Watson and betraying him to the rest of the family, so the letter writer is in something of a moral quandary. The fury at injustice leaps off the page, he clearly feels life is exceptionally unfair!

So as I see it, this is the situation outlines in the letter:

Mr and Mrs Knott have 8 legitimate siblings, but unknown to Mrs Knott, Mr Knott also has an illigitimate son who he thinks is still a secret.

One of his sons, let's call him LW (letter writer) has discovered that his father had an illegitimate son (your granddad?) and has struck up a correspondence with him, hoping to introduce him to the rest of the family at some point because at this moment, he's furious at his father, Mr Knott.

He's angry at his Dad because he forced another brother, Watson, to marry a girl he had a fling with, because the girl fell pregnant before they were married. LW does not like this and describes it as "a dirty way of doing things". He's especially angry in light of the fact that his father ALSO sired an illegitimate son but never married the mother and kept it all secret.

LW is now so angry he's threatening to expose his father's secret but doesn't want to have to tell the rest of the family why he did it, which would mean exposing Watson. So his plan is to write anonymous letters, disguise his handwriting and send multiple copies to his mother and an attempt to keep himself out of it

He's confiding in your grandfather, indicating he doesn't believe your grandfather will tell anyone and possibly also means that they haven't met (he's still an abstract to LW, can be trusted with secrets as he's not really "real"). It also indicates that this letter is probably the last of many. What it doesn't tell us is whether LW ever actually wrote to his mother and exposed his father, but I'm inclined to think not. Unfortunately, I think your father hoped that he would and that he'd be "found" by the family, as promised in the first part of LW's letter where there's a vision of them "all being together". Unfortunately, I suspect LW never wrote to his mother and never again wrote to your Grandfather, so this letter held a hope for your DGF that never came to fruition. It's desperately sad if you take this interpretation

Goodness me, this is fascinating.

Does it answer the questions you had OP?
Or just raise more?

What a sad story. But fantastic detective work Banana!

Wow, I came back to see if I could manage it but I see it's been done - I would have really struggled with that as well. What a sad story, though, OP, I hope that does give you some more information.

If it helps, you might be able to get further with this story using a Local Studies Library in Edinburgh for the place names, if it still have one - the librarians there will be experts in rootling out old street names, etc.

I'll caveat and say it's only an interpretation and I could be totally wrong! The frustrating thing about old letters is the room for interpretation and of course without a corroborating history/ context, it's even harder.

I have a collection of love letters my grandfather wrote to my grandmother during WW2, and another collection that my great Grandad wrote to his mother during WW1. The first have about 50 letters and in the second there's around 20, it's taken me 3 years to transcribe them all and I'm still not sure I've got it all correct. All parties are passed on/ have dementia (in the case of my DGM) so unfortunately I'll never be able to check, but they do mention places that have been bombed/ historical events that help give context and a timeline :)

It's a fascinating hobby and so rewarding!

Banana