Is my mother a narc? And what can I do?

[bloodydrama]

NC as this is very outing. Sorry, this could be long. I don't want to drip feed.
Over the years we have had many ups and downs. I'm an only child, and she was 40 when I was born. Sadly my DDad died when I was a baby so it has been the 2 of us forever.

According to my childhood friends who have known me and Mum all our lives, she has always been very controlling, although also very kind sometimes. She would always welcome my friends over, set us out nice food etc, take us places. She had plenty of money from my dad's life insurance and didn't work.

I had DD1 aged 24 and moved next door to Mum. My relationship with DD's dad didn't work out so I was a single Mum too and she 'helped' me. She would only help how she saw fit though... she never took DD so I could sleep/go out with friends/ do anything remotely fun as she thinks a mother should be with her child at all times.

Fast forward and I have had a rough few years with DP (his drinking and horrid behaviour, and depression) and I have had 2 DC with him now 6m and 2 years old) I naturally stupidly went running to Mum whenever we had a fall out or I left him. So I know this does colour things somewhat.

DP and I aren't currently living together. We're in negotiations about getting back together. I love him and he is a great dad to the children.

My mum will not accept this AT ALL. Which I can understand in some ways but the main problem I have now is, she is often taking out her anger at me on DD1, now 11. DD1 is currently being assessed for ASD (Asperger's) and is in the throes of puberty and can be a right PITA. My mum doesn't believe in ASD. She thinks DD1 is an 'indigo child' and that she, herself is too 🤔 that they are special and better than everyone else.

She is always criticising me. About what I've fed the children, that I should wean the baby sooner, that I don't iron clothes/cook nice (in her opinion!) foods/ play with them enough/ keep the house tidy. I shouldn't go to work (not due back til April on 2 days per week. I love my job and it's my precious 'me' time as well as paying the bills!)

She's taken to calling DP 'the oaf' to DD1, and says he should be paying for everything. She's constantly saying to DD what she thinks I should or shouldn't be doing.
It's not fair to do this to DD. She's 11!
I have spoken to her about all this and she just gets angry and calls me names and says how stupid I am, or cries.

What the hell am I supposed to do??
I currently live a few doors down from Mum, and she has bought DD1 a horse and I need her to take DD to the yard twice a day (this was the deal when she said about buying the horse in the first place; I physically can't commit to all the trips to the yard because of the little ones/ other commitments, and I can't afford the upkeep of the horse. So she has me over a barrel really.
My friends say she won't change now, and think she's got worse over the last 5 years or so. DD1 thinks she's 'crazy', she can be so nice one minute, then drive off and leave DD at the yard the next!
Any words of wisdom, dear MNers? I'm bloody exhausted by it all.

Anyone?

My first reaction is to say move as far away as you can. If your daughter thinks she's mad that's good. But you're beholden to her because of the horse unless you can work out sharing it with someone else to stop needing her.

It sounds exhausting and like she's never let you really be yourself and controls far too much of your life but you're not going to realise that because it's all you've ever known.

How often to you see/speak to her?

What reasons does she give for not liking your partner?

Thank you for your reply.
It's only recently I've realised how controlling she is, before that I thought she was pretty okay! Which she can be...
I would like to move away, but I also feel a sense of duty to her as she's getting older. She doesn't have many any friends (surprise surprise) so looks to me to meet her social needs. He health isn't the greatest either. She's late seventies now.

She says she doesn't like DP, can't stand him, because of money. She seems to think that he owes me around £15k. This isn't true. She's basing it on what I originally went into the relationship with, and when we split last year, what I came our with. She won't accept that he has less money now too. Spent on house renovations (which haven't added to value) and 2 children! He also dropped working hours to spend more time with kids.
She says he is manipulative and controlling. She thinks he's lazy. And tight with money. She thinks that even if he and I aren't together, he should pay for everything for me, and I shouldn't go out to work.
Usually I see her at least once a day. My 2yo adores her.
He often wants to go to her house 'on my own' because she plays with him constantly. Yet she said to DD1 the other day that I sent him over to hers because I couldn't be bothered to look after him myself. This is nonsense. He heard her on the phone and asked to go over there. He was here 20mins while I showered and fed the baby. Then I picked him up to take him to playgroup.
It's shit like this that's really getting to me. She says playgroup is abandoning him because I can't be arsed with him. It's 2x 3 hours!! She says all this to DD1.
If I confront her she says 'We'll, it's the truth isn't it? You just don't like to hear it. Same as all the other stupid people in the world.'

What a horrible situation for you, it is really good that your daughter sees her behaviour as mad, I wouldn't worry too much about what she says to her as your daughter will be able to see it's nonsense, you're her mum and you are her example, not your mum.
You mention your mums age and bad behaviour is often excused by age, but I think you really need to tell her you will have to stop seeing her/ talking to her if this continues, like all narcs she will never think she is in the wrong and there is no point telling her in some ways as she will rewrite it all in her head anyway, but you do have power even if you feel she has you over a barrel and you can remove yourself mentally from her.

...also don't forget, she WANTS to help with the children, it's a privilege that you allow her, get that into your head, she isn't the one doing you the favours however she likes to twist it round to 'poor me'.

Is there anyway you could get some counselling? It would help you so much as you can protect yourself from behaviour like hers when you can see the whole picture and it would help you work out what you want re DP etc.

I have had some counselling over the last few years, but it's expensive. And I feel like they just listen (which is nice, but I need advice!).
I was reading a good book called 'a woman in your own right' but I seem to have lost it. I'll buy another copy. I'm crap at being assertive (with her).
My best friend has tried too but my mum is so good at twisting things around so you come out thinking 'yeah, she's right'
One thing she did that still stings is I had a home birth with DD2 this summer. The plan was that DS would go to hers if he wasn't already asleep once things got going. So DD1 took him to mums about 7pm, But she brought him back after half an hour because he started to cry and said he wanted me. Not really^^ upset though. Her words were 'can't he (DP) look after him? The midwife is here so I don't know why you need DP as well.'
So I had to call my friend who came over and looked after him and put him to bed!
She thinks that's all perfectly acceptable.

There's a thread about stately homes which has good links at the start. It talks about FOG, Fear Obligation, Guilt.
You need to grow a hide like a rhino and start putting in some boundaries.
Give up any hope of her approval- that is just part of her control tactics.
Don't bother with open confrontation or discussion- she isn't reasonable so can't be reasoned with.
Organise your life so you don't need her, every scrap of independence you have will weaken her hold- be careful here, don't go back to DP just to get away from her, only do that if it's what you want.
It's good that DD1 sees through her. Perhaps the horse situation becomes all about DD1, so if she threatens to withdraw help, ' OK, but it will break DDs heart, I'm surprised you want to ruin her relationship with her!'

I've found treating my DM like a toddler is quite helpful. She rants and raves and tantrums, I listen patiently and sympathise but I STILL DON'T GIVE IN AND GET HER WHAT SHE WANTED!

Stately homes threads posters will help you.

And perhaps a relationships thread about your DP, who doesn't sound great either: your mum being a problem doesn't mean she's wrong about him!

That book is good on general assertiveness but doesn't cover "toxic" behaviour and family dynamics, or abusive relationships - there are recommendations on stately homes.

Suggest you stop seeking support of any kind from your mother and reduce contact with / information shared with her.

Partly I'm here to check that is is her, not me.
Those examples are t normal behaviour are they?

Should I copy the whole post and stick it in stately homes? I'm a bit nervous about joining big threads, I feel like I can't keep up, or that I'll miss something and be rude!
How do I introduce myself over there?

You can just pop in and say hi! With brief info. There are no rules. Or start a thread and posters will pop in.

No those behaviours are not normal behaviours.she has trained you since a young age to depend on her for things, even though you don't actually need her for these things. She loves children when they're young but when they start developing personalities and questioning her authority, she finds problems with them. Your 11yo DD is the golden child for her who can do no wrong, so your mum is scapegoating you to offload her frustrations in her relationship with your DD.

It's a highly toxic situation, even if there are times where you feel supported and helped by her. It doesn't mean you are ungrateful if you want a shred of your own mind and own decision making back.

A mother who loves you unconditionally would do all of the things that help you, and not make you feel any of the this fear/obligation/guilt.

DD1 is currently being assessed for ASD (Asperger's) and is in the throes of puberty and can be a right PITA. My mum doesn't believe in ASD.

No, not normal. You don't get an assessment lightly and ASD is NOT imaginary!

She's taken to calling DP 'the oaf' to DD1

This is destructive behaviour. No grandmother should call their grandchild's dad a 'oaf' to their face! Running him down, no matter his flaws, is very destructive.

and she just gets angry and calls me names and says how stupid I am, or cries

Immature, controlling and unconstructive.

she can be so nice one minute, then drive off and leave DD at the yard the next!

How does your DD get home?

Aren't you all walking on eggshells?

If you are, that's a bad way to live. No emotional safety for you or your children, either of them.

None of this is normal, no. Your thoughts and your instincts are right. Believe them.

DD phones me and I go and get her sometimes, or Mum will go back for her.

DP isn't DD1s dad, I think she thinks she can say whatever she likes about him to DD1 because of this. It hasn't helped their relationship at all.
My mum also thinks DP shouldn't have any say in the younger two's education/ religion either

She says all she wants is for me to be happy, and that DP is the reason I'm not...
TBH I am actually happy at the moment, DP and I are taking things slowly, we've been to counselling, we talk a lot. He understands and is very sorry for his behaviour in the past and really has stepped up. Having DS then DD2 has made him realise what it's all about.

You do need to bear in mind that it is not one thing. Your mother sounds very controlling and difficult and a great deal of her behaviour is incredibly problematic to the extent that distance would be a good thing.

It won'5 have helped though that you have talked to her a great deal about your partners 'drinking, depression and horrid behaviour'
If his behaviour was bad enough that you split because of it and you sought her support through that then she will find it harder to forgive him than you do. You might think he is wonderful because you love him but her view of him is going to be less. ..forgiving.

I completely get that Pag, I really do.
And I don't expect miracles. It's the way she speaks about him and me to the children I do t agree with
She won't be in the same building as him. And then if I'm spending time with him and the children she complains that I don't see her! Says I just 'use' her for babysitting.
Which is a load of tripe because she never looks after the little ones apart from the odd half hour with DS.

Christmas is going to be fun!
DP will be here and I can't leave Mum on her own a few doors away can I?

DP will be here and I can't leave Mum on her own a few doors away can I?

You can actually.

You can, and should, put your life partner ahead of your parent. The only people who come higher in life than your partner are your children.

She won't like it at all but that's normal when a controlling person senses that someone is getting away and leading their own life, rather than the life assigned for them. The best option is to plan how to handle the tantrums (much like handling a toddler's actually, but with more vicious verbal weopons, which she won't hesitate to use).

You may not be ready to face that this year. But it's something you should consider longer term. Your mother will carry on ruling your life unless you start to do something about it. Ask your DP for help - as long as he's a decent person, he will. Tell him what you need, support and validation that you're doing the right and healthy thing.

In the end, you should choose a (decent) partner over your parents, if it comes to a forced choice.; Your mother is forcing this christmas choice by refusing to be in the same house. Not you. This is her responsibility.

I would feel very sorry for your children and your DP if they aren't together on Xmas day because of your mother. Both they and he have a right to see each other. Your DD thinks she's nuts, doesn't she. That an 11 year old sees that says something.

She says all she wants is for me to be happy, and that DP is the reason I'm not...

were you happy before you met DP? were you happy with the way your mother was behaving before he was around? Even more bluntly, does she make you happy?

I feel on edge around her. She's even said to me this morning (she rang me) that she's sorry for yelling at DD1 and has apologised. She thinks calling DP an oaf is acceptable because 'well if the shoe fits'.
She's said she's sorry and that's that as far as she's concerned. And it's actually my fault that she's angry anyway because I'm taking DP back. So, not really an apology. But I expected this.
I'm not sure I can face WW3 this Christmas but DP will definitely be here, and I'll tell her she is welcome to come too. It's my house fgs!
Thank you all for posting g by the way, it really helps. My brain feels fogged so I don't know what's 'right' or 'wrong' these days.
And the happiness thing, I've been up and down since I was a teenager, various reasons, but definitely not all because of DP!

I have no helpful advice to give, I just wanted to say that this sounds like my mother! I feel your pain!

She's said she's sorry and that's that as far as she's concerned.

when someone drops a vase, they can say sorry. The vase is still broken though! Even if she doesn't want to accept it, it doesn't mean that you have to find the situation ok.

It's absolutely not on for her to call your DP an oaf though. it's highly disrepsectful to him, and to you actually (he's your choice of partner) and it's really bad for her to call him that in front of your daughter.