DH is a complete idiot

[MagikarpetRide]

I'm clearly being reasonable just from the thread title.

I've long since given up on actually asking DH to help with anything that requires some thought process or ownership. If in times of need I've asked him to help me out, he cannot fathom what the hell to do or possibly even why I'm asking. So I've taken to asking him to do particular things so he can't play dumb.

At the moment DD5 and DS4 are really playing us up. They do not listen to anything unless they're hollered at. It's a rut we got stuck in and I'm trying to claw out of. But DH won't do anything that is suggested regarding trying to break out of the shouting cycle. So I asked him today instead to come up with a punishment for when the DCs misbehave that comes from him and he will enforce.

What has he done? He's tried to arrange some counselling sessions for us. He says he got confused about what I meant when I asked him to do something very specific. If he has to do anything more than say 'there there dear' he's not fricking interested.

He's apparently on his way home to talk now. I don't want to talk. I've talked till I'm blue in the face time and time again. Please help me not kill him. Or help me kill him and give me ways to get away with it.

Normally its low level and I just bumble along making a rod for my own back. It only rears its head when I actually need him to help out with something. Its risen its head badly because I'm in the middle of an auto immune flare and poor MIL is even more sick so I've lost her and FILs support until she gets better, so I really need him to step up parenting wise.

It oddly been going a lot better since I realised that I can't make him think, but I can ask him to do achievable things. This is a new twist.

He's thankfully buggered off to work now, upset that his sad-face-stare-at-the-floor-woe-is-me routine hasn't made me fill the silence. I had an idea of something to try with the DC yesterday so I'm going to quickly run through it with them now before DD goes to school. Then I'm going to enjoy the peace of the rest of the day well as much as DS will allow me

I'm massively struck by the irony that until he tried to arrange counselling we didn't seem to need it

What strikes me from this comment is that he's actually more aware than you are. You were one thing away from declaring 'you're done' yet you say your relationship didn't need counselling!

...should just add I don't want to seem like I'm getting you, just that this isn't all about him. It sounds like he's just as frustrated with you as you are with him and he's treading on eggshells but wants to fix things.

I don't want to seem like I'm getting at you. It's just that he could be just as frustrated at you so is wanting to work towards fixing things.

You see it as him not doing as you want, he's done a good thing but you turn into a petulant child and punish him with ignoring because of it.

Counselling sounds like a great idea for you both.

Bigger, sorry

Counselling could help with your communication (your mutual communication) and understanding what each of you need and mean. It could help him understand where he is not recognising your needs or expectations .

And though I can see you are wrung out and under pressure I think your response when he came home suggesting counselling having been told that you are 'done' was passive aggressive.

Him acting clueless about chores , you exasperated about 'headspace' issues (him not sharing them ), you assuming that less shouting means alternative punishment, kids not listening ....

Time invested in understanding communication is not wasted, if you want your marriage and family life to improve, rather than just chuck it out.

(Just for info:
Pklme: the word 'moron' was an actual classification for someone with learning difficulties in not so recent times, so it's use as an insult is akin to using 'spastic' , also an outdated medical classification.
But not everyone knows this or intends offence , of course.)

So was the word idiot, so it's not clear to me why one is acceptable and the other.

Moron and idiot were different classifications on the same scale.

It's abundantly clear that counselling is not something he's doing because he wants to fix things. It's an avoidance tactic. He can sit and talk about things and feel good about himself for wanting to 'work at the relationship' when in actuality it's just more of the same - talking and never doing.

It's okay to be done with it. I would be, if I were you.

Is he this incompetent at work? Thought not. I would go to counselling, for me, to find out what I needed and how to get there. All this, 'sit him down, make him lists, maybe he has a communication problem (just wait, someone will be along to tell you he's depressed and you need to get him to the GP, that he has autism, that he has MH issues) is a continuing of exactly the situation now: where you are expected to solve all the problems. I can see how it started, because he's conditioned to think lifework is for women and you were conditioned to see his pulling his weight as 'help'.

So you need to work on what you need because he's an adult and needs to sort out his own issues.

Maybe he wants a sticker reward chart?

holger that's my issue with going to counselling with him. He has done counselling on his own where he talked. He came out with a plan. He has done naff all. His answer is 'well I went to counselling didn't I?'

It's a diversion tactic. There's an actual issue in the house that he could make a positive step towards. But that requires him doing something. So rather than actually do anything useful he is trying to make it look like he's attempting something. In the meantime of course, I have to sort the real problem out.

It doesn't seem he's taken kindly to my change in tack with him. He's gone so far this morning as to put ds' lunch box together so it looked like he made his lunch, but in fact the sandwich box and bottle are empty. Ds and I are having lunch out as a treat.

Yes, we probably do need some counselling. But if he wants that then he can pull his finger out of his butt and organise it.

attila that made me laugh. My parents? Well df had quite a high flying career in his industry, was very well known and liked, was the man you went to in a crisis. At home, completely incompetent. Guess I got my answer as to why I've facilitated this for so long!

I think a lot is being lazy or domestically they've not had to think for themselves. Or frankly they don't care enough. I think a lot of men suggest counselling as their way of saying they want to fix things without actually putting up. It's a gesture.

If you want to stay together (assuming there are good qualities to DH too) then I'd suggest going to therapy. First as a couple, you can talk about the issues for both sides, I'm sure a decent therapist will encourage DH to talk too. You can hopefully try to put in place some ideas to try and if he doesn't try then obviously bring that up at the next session. I thought that's how therapy worked?
If DH won't do you need to decide if you will put up with it or if you are going to sack him off? But obviously no point continuing therapy, throwing money at it isn't going to fix this problem.
If DH starts to change it might be an idea to add the kids to some sessions. I know they are only young but family therapy can be helpful and having another adult remind them they need to listen and that shouting isn't right might help. If DH is as useless as you except then take the kids without him.

I worry about this if DP and I ever have kids. He's shit around the house anyway, and needs step by step instructions and me close enough by to watch what he's doing to guide him (like 'no that's the wrong type of cleaner' or 'the leftovers won't fit in that tub').

magi

What does your DH do for a job?

Oh & I don't think 'it's you' at all. You're clearly, and understandably, at the end of your tether. Men like this are hugely draining.

Lemon. Seriously? WTAF are you still with him? Why do you want to be in a relationship with a manchild?

Without outing myself, dh's is in a services job - sort of management of goods logistics. He works with time critical products. I worked in the same industry so I know he's perfectly competent at work.

My problem with DH right now is that I'm so angry with him I can't see what he's bringing to the table. I don't want to make rash decisions until I've calmed down enough to see rationally. DH is trying to force my hand into either forgiving him and returning to the status quo or kicking him out.

What I do know is that I need him to do some parenting beyond just watching the dcs. I've needed this though for nearly 6 years and there's no improvement. I also need him to do some stuff in the house (I can't move on with doing other things until he literally undertakes this task but it's a big task), I've needed this done for 2 years and whilst it's not worsened it's not improved.

I think he knows he's about to be told he needs to do this task again. Counselling is another way of not having enough time to do this task.

So currently I feel I have no choice but to just start doing things without even talking to him. Which brings me back round to what is he bringing to the table? Things are definitely easier without him at home. I don't want to be married to a man child and I made that clear when I took him back a few years ago.

This thread and the previous two "incompetent husband" threads has many parallels.

If you do not want to be married to a manchild, then you are going to have to end your marriage to your H ultimately.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships as well?.

You've had six years already of waiting for him to step up and be an adult and he clearly has not wanted to do any of what he fundamentally sees as "wifework" for you and you alone to deal with. You just have to give your own self permission to end this marriage.

Or you could just stop picking up after him. Don't do this laundry. Don't save dinner for him. Don't do home repairs. Lower your housekeeping standards. I did this early with my DP and now he cleans, cooks and buys grocery.

He'll eventually decide he prefers to live in a clean organized home, or you'll decide you're better off without him.

I'd question if he's always been like this. If he has, then perhaps it's not him that's the idiot?

If he hasn't, then what's changed?

malice I'm the idiot.

I think I ignored things at the start. Some things didn't seem important in the grand scheme of things when it was just us two. When I got pregnant with DD we had a long talk about how things would have to change. I don't think I'd fully realised the extent of things though. Obviously the wanting me to solve all the child related things didn't occur until after DD was born. Other stuff became more clear after DS was born. I don't really have anyone to blame for the blindness except my own willful ignorance.

But it all got bad enough we nearly divorced 18m ago. This was also where I stopped relying on him to actually think about things and started directly asking him to do things instead (with a conversation he would be involved in so not demanding he did things). I was using the 'you can't change them but you can change how you react to them' thing. Largely it works, its just these two massive sticking points that he does not want to engage in. The worst is the not wanting to do any hard parenting.

Had a good chat to a friend this morning whilst DS was at an activity. She accidentally reignited my fury by asking if he had come up with some way of him dealing with the DC then. It made me realise that 'I need you to do x with the DC because of y' followed when he claimed he doesn't know what to do by 'I've already given you an idea, try x' hasn't worked. He is not in any way interested in trying x because x requires him actually doing something parenting related.

I ended up breaking silence only to tell him that if his plan for tonight is to attempt to guilt me with his hangdog expressions then not to bother coming home.

I can feel your frustration and disappointment coming off the page in waves. Wish I had something helpful to offer, but nothing here I'm afraid. Sorry.

I think its all coming to its inevitable conclusion. This is only a seemingly small act of idiocy from him, but its opened my eyes and I can't close them.

He's talked to me a bit. He wants to do counselling himself to 'help his issues around relationships'. Its my fault he shouts at the DC because I'm stressed out . He's bitterly sorry apparently.

Well he's now angry as fuck because I told him I knew he wasn't that incompetent at work and I'm frankly insulted that after last time he still thinks I'm that much of an idiot I'd fall for it again, and that after 6 years his words mean nothing to me any more. That what he did yesterday proved to me he's in love with the idea of a family, so long as he doesn't have to put effort in and that I can't keep going on with it coming to points like this for him to even engage with more than just watching the DC.

Oh, he also came up with an idea to help not shout at them. He's going to try not to.

Arsehole.

Sorry for rant.