Confused about DH vs new-ish DP and possible divorce.

[confusedfeelings]

I've changed my name for this since it is so personal. Sorry.

My situation: I left DH 2 years ago because he didn't talk to me, wouldn't do any family things with me/dd, and we were, looking back, probably both depressed. Other than that he is a good man, attractive, we agree on everything morally and politically and were great friends and partners before having dd. The other thing wrong with the marriage was that he is bright, but isn't on my wavelength intellectually. i.e we never wanted to see the same films, he wouldn't join in with abstract conversations, etc etc. But this was ok while I got this from friends. Anyway, I left, taking dd with me (she was 1 1/2 years old). He was devastated, we didn't talk for a long time, he came round, we're now good friends and he sees dd regularly.

Since then I've met and moved in with a great man (dp) who is all I want intellectually and sexually but who is 8 years younger than me (I'm 33). I have an engagement ring on my finger although I'm not divorced so we couldn't marry yet even if I wanted to. No problems between him and dd, they get on fantastically well. On the whole our relationship is good although the age gap does bother me sometimes (will he have a thirties crisis and walk out? Am I stopping him enjoying his youth?)

This is partly because 8 months ago he (dp) left me, briefly, saying that he didn't know if he could cope with the committment, he didn't love me and that he wanted to move out. I was devastated. He then changed his mind (1 day later) and said he was wrong and begged me to forgive him. I sort of have done although am not prepared to get pregnant yet since he hasn't quite regained my trust and I 'm not 100% sure he won't do it (leave me) again. He wants children asap. I'm not so sure (whether or not I stay with him).

Now, today, DH has just told me he wants to file for divorce since it's been over 2 years since we separated. Only just. I've been with dp since then. I feel really strange about this since I have been wondering recently whether I did the right thing leaving him. We went out a while back and had a great time (nothing romantic happened). He is very attractive, stable, mature (more so than dp in age (dh is my age) although dp is mature for his age) and of course, he is dd's father. He also seems to have changed and for the better. He is definitely not depressed any more and neither am I. I am wondering whether dd put such a strain on our relationship that it went wrong and whether I should have ridden it out. I have been putting off instigating divorce proceedings since it is final.

I'm not sure whether this is all because dp doesn't feel like a stable option because of what he did 6 months ago or because the grass is always greener or because dh is looking more attractive and mature and kind every time I see him....was I on the rebound and my judgement cloudy when I met dp?

I'm confused. I got that weird horrible adrenaline rush when dh just told me he would be talking to his solicitor about a divorce. Any words of wisdom? And I know that I probably sound like a silly cow. Thanks.

Please, has anyone got some advice? I'd really appreciate a completely impartial view. Thanks, thanks, thanks.

Before you decided to leave your dh, did you try everything in your power to save the marriage? Did you go to counselling? Sit down and talk to him? You say he was devestated so I presume he didn't see it coming. I don't want to sound mean, but maybe you did act rashly. Many couples go through crises in their marriages, people change and you wonder whether you really are suited after all. Parenthood especially changes people, perhaps you were both adjusting to this new role and needed time.

It sounds like your dh is everything you could want in a man, but he doesn't communicate often enough or spend enough time with you and sometimes is not on your wavelength, am I right? Sorry but they sound like very trivial reasons to break up a marriage. Every woman could say that about her husband.

This new partner sounds ok to me. I mean, look at it from his point of view, you left your husband two years ago, not because of an affair, but because you grew bored of him by the sounds of it, he takes you on with another man's child and all too soon the word commitment comes up, he is bound to be scared! He is probably asking himself if you will leave him in the same way! He has much more to lose than you, what if he gets close to your little girl, she calls him daddy and then the relationship falls apart, he doesn't have a leg to stand on, you could take your dd away and he would have no rights to see her at all. Give the man a break!

The ideal situation would be to work on the relationship with your ex, if he is prepared to let you. But you cannot play mind games with these men, you need to be honest with them. I think you benefit greatly from some marriage counselling, either to fully let go of your past relationship or to help you see in a future in your new one.

Sorry if I sounded like a cow, but that's my advice and I do wish you good luck, if only for your daughter's sake.

Rhubarb is right!! I have been married before but left my husband (before children) because I realised we wanted completely different things in life. My second dh has the same values but is also on a different wave length but I love him to bits. When my divorce came through I was still on my own and felt really weird about it. You have to sort out with these men what is going on, are you feeling bad about the divorce because you haven't let go and if you haven't let go is it because you still care enough to try again.
Don't dismiss dp because he maybe panicked about the commitment. You can't just opt for the guy who is going to stay with you and dd. You have to talk. Maybe you don't feel the right feelings to stay with either men???

Thank you for your advice. Some good points.
But, I did not leave my marriage because I was bored. I begged DH to come to counselling, he wouldn't. I can assure you that the state of our relationship was not trivial and my reasons for leaving were not either. I did tell DH time and time again that things needed to change or I wouid leave, so he should have seen it coming. My family at the time supported me and agreed that the marriage wasn't working (from what they could see of it). I really didn't want my marriage to break up.
Good point about dp wondering if I'll do the same to him: hadn't occurred to me that he might feel this way. And I'm not playing mind games with either of them. I haven't discussed this with dp and have not told dh about my feelings re a divorce. That's why I posted here, to get if off my chest and to see what advice anyone could offer. Sister, you're right that I can't opt for the one who I think will stay with me: I have to do what is right for me and dd. I agree. Thankfully I do have some friends in real life I can discuss this with too. I do think you were a bit hard on me! Thank god I changed my name

Confusedfeelings

I wish I had some words of wisdom for you but this is way out of my league.

What I will do is wish you the best in trying to work out how you want to go forward and I hope you have sucess in whatever action you decide to take.

Confusedfeelings, sorry if you think that we were being hard on you. I get the feeling that things were going on in your marriage that you haven't told us about. We can only comment on what you tell us! Maybe you need a break from both of them at the moment. It's easy to live with dp and thing the grass might be greener back with dh, maybe if you were away from both you could assess the situation more fairly??

Confusedfeelings - what a difficult time this must be for you.

I can relate to your marriage breakdown, it sounds very similar to what I went through with dd's father. Comments about whether you 'tried hard enough' to save the relationship are irrelevant; you know deep down when it is over for you and you want out, although like me I expect you didn't find it easy to take dd away from her father.

I'm wondering if your feelings for ex-dh are slightly rose-tinted; don't forget that now you aren't living with him you are only seeing his best side - a bit like when you first got together. Don't lose sight of the factors that led you to end the relationship - although if you now feel that those could possibly be accepted/worked through to enable a reconciliation then you must talk to dh honestly.

To be honest, I feel he would find it extremely difficult to try again with you, for a number of reasons, but I do think you should talk and find out where the land lies.

With regards to dp, I don't think the age gap needs to be an issue at all. It sounds like he did a classic last-minute panic about the strength of his feelings for you and desire for commitment and frankly it sounds as though he is entirely sure about what he wants - you!

You do need to ask yourself some searching questions about who you really love and why, who you see sharing your future, and like others have said, it just might be possible that you need some space away from both.

I hope this has been of some help, I really feel for you and hope you will keep posting.

kind regards, Mopsy

Confusedfeelings, I think Mopsy has made some very good points. The way you felt about your dh when you split is what i feel about my dh now, and it's not trivial at all. Can you get away from both for a while? It might help you see things more clearly. I haven't much more to add, but i don't think you are a silly cow and I know exactly what you mean by that adrenaline rush. Much as I think I want out of my relationship, I feel the same when he talks about solicitors etc. then i think "Do I want to leave him?" then when I'm on my own again, I'm sure I do! I am fast disappearing up my own rear end! Good luck, keep posting.

I have to agree with Mopsy. And I do sympathise with your confusion.

Although as I don't know you and your dh it's difficult to really comment on why it went wrong etc, I think that it is unlikely that your dd was the cause, although may well have been a pressure on the relationship. It is a very testing time becoming a parent and I think it puts the best relationships on the line sometimes, but I do believe that if your relationship is good enough it will see it through. I think children are the ultimate relationship testers !

I think that Mopsy hit the nail on the head with the rose tinted glasses comment. I do happen to think that it's always easier to see someone differently when you are not living under the same roof. I think that if you were the reasons you left in the first place would possibly rear their ugly heads again. People can change their ways to an extent like making an effort to spend more time with the family etc but can't change fundamentally.

Maybe you are looking at dh because you know that things aren't quite as you with with dp ?? Although I think that dp sounds great, I think to avoid hurting him you need to be honest with yourself first and then with him.

Hope this helps xx

Yup! Just to add quickly that I sometimes wear rose tinted glasses at the thought of my ex (dd's dad) and I don't even see him - I think it would be worse if he were there all the time. I can't help comparing my dp (argh - that is the first time I've used that term as its all very new - scary!) with my ex and if I was seeing both of them there would be a lot of conflicting emotions for me to deal with (although I'm sure dp would 'win' hands down in my case, he's so great!) Sorry, I'm not much use but I hope you take time out to really trawl through everything you're thinking - and keep posting on here too - it really helps sort the wood from the trees I find!

Sorry if you thought I was hard on you ConfusedFeelings, but you didn't make all that clear in your first posting. Obviously if you tried to make the marriage work but your ex took no notice, there is no reason to think he will change now. He might not even want you back, he might be happy on his own.

You are on the brink of a new relationship and are bound to be thinking of your old one, you might find it scary and wish for the relative safety and security of your ex. However unless he is prepared to really give your marriage another go and to go to counselling sessions with you, I would put him out of your head. Have you thought of a cooling off period? Not seeing your dp for say three months, try living on your own and being independant for a while, then see after the three months if you really want a relationship with him, and indeed if he wants one with you.

Take it slowly. Hope things work out

I do strongly think that whatever you decide you really mustn't have another child while you are in any way undecided/uncommitted, whatever your boyfriend wants. He is only 25, very young to be a father IMO, and you have plenty of time too. And aif it did go wrong there would be another child who didn't like with their father and you would have siblings who spent weekends apart with their separate fathers - oh, it sounds like a recipe for disaster. Has your dh shown any sign of wanting to get back with you? He might be happy as he is. I can totally understand the sick, adrenaline rush though, it's hard to say a firm goodbye to such a big part of your life. I really don't think it necessarily means you are still in love.

confusedfeelings, if theres an answer to this one I have not found it.
Dh and I split up over five years ago ( no kids) in very sismilar circumstances, and despite having since met dp and had 3 kids together I am not "over" dh in any real sense at all, except that I have put him to the back of my mind and don't torture myself with what might have been had we handled it differently.
Sometimes emotional pain can't be fixed , we just have to live with it.

I notice you did not mention love. Do you love either of these men?

Good question jasper, I came on this bit just to ask CF if she loved either of these men too.

Thanks for all your advice and kindness. To answer your questions, when I married DH we had only been together for just over 1 year although we had been friends for much longer, 4 years. At the time I decided that passion wasn't that important, nor was a meeting of minds, but that stability, friendship and shared values were. dd was not planned and without her I do think our relationship would have run its course a lot sooner. We married because he wanted to and I thought whats the big deal about marriage, the true committment is dd, so a piece of paper makes no difference. I did love him, but in a brotherly way I guess. We kind of missed out all the courtship and romance since we went from friends to lovers to parenthood quite quickly. (My clock ticking? Maybe.)

He does still love me, has not met anyone else and would take me back. He told me this on aforementioned night out. On this night out though, although I objectively thought you look gorgeous, I didn't fancy him or feel any desire and found his conversation unsatisfying. So maybe I'm answering my own question here

As for dp, he is mature for his age, I do definitely love him, we still have tons of romance and passion in our relationship, we love talking to each other, share all our feelings and thoughts, have shared morality and friendship and fantastic sex. He does love me, is committed and would marry me tomorrow if I wanted it (and could). I suppose I'm still insecure from what happened and am not able to commit to a child with him yet because of this. I suppose this whole dilemma has reared its head since dp is broody and DH has mentioned DIVORCE!

Whoever said that the 2 kids/2 different fathers/2 separations would be a nightmare, I agree. I don't want that AT ALL. Afraid of making a mistake again I suppose.
No, I can't guarantee that he'll stay with me but that could be true of any man, any age. I think we should hold off having children and I should let DH get on with divorce proceedings if that's what he wants. I suppose some of this is bound up with the fact that I do think marriage is a serious committment and is different to just living together (despite not feeling that when I did marry). I can't imagine not living with dp or moving out, temporarily or otherwise and I don't necessarily think time apart is the answer. I think I need to keep talking to him since we do usually communicate well, to the extent that he sometimes seems able to read my mind. He probably knows some of this and will be happy to discuss it with me. I have been thinking about this a lot and think the answer is to talk to dp about my insecurity, hold off babies and see what happens.

And I should take off those rose-tinted spectacles.

Confusedfeelings, I'd agree with everyone who says that maybe you are seeing your ex through rosetinted glasses. Nothing much else to add but my sympathy. Good luck whatever you decide.

Confusedfeelings
I think you sound sure about what you really want to do now; I think you were thrown off balance by your ex-dh's divorce request, and dp's desire for major commitment in the form of both marriage and children. These three things are all enormous changes to go through and accept, and I do think if you deal with one at a time you will be able to see much more clearly.

From what you say about ex-dh it does sound as though the relationship does not have a future; it will be painful to finally 'let go' - and you need to be able to have accepted that before you make major new commitments with dp. I'm sure that when the divorce is through and a little time has elapsed you will feel able to properly address the issues of how you would like your new relationship with dp to be.

With very best wishes, Mopsy x

An update for anyone who is interested...went out with dp a couple of nights ago and he said: "you're feeling strange about divorce since you still don't trust me and because we've talked about a baby recently and I do understand, let's talk about it" so he is a mindreader! He was wonderful and we talked honestly about how we both felt. He reassured me that he is not going to leave, that if I don't want another child that's fine, he chooses me over having children and that he loves me and is committed to me. He also understands why I felt the way I did about divorce being mentioned. Mopsy, you were right, it was all 3 things at once and I couldn't cope with it.

Posting here helped so much: writing it down and getting such sound and kind advice. Thank you everyone. Feel much better, happier and relieved.

Sorry ConfusedFeelings but I do think that marriage is a serious commitment. You are making pretty hefty vows in front of a third party and your friends and family. You are vowing to stick to each other through thick and thin, 'till death do us part and all that. Those vows are tied up in law and IMO are the most serious vows you could make, this goes beyond a promise! Yes having kids is also a very serious commitment, but so is teaching them that once you make a promise to someone you should keep it.

I would think seriously about getting married again, especially if you view it as just a piece of paper. Many churches now will not marry unless you go to marriage courses, which sound cheesy, but they run through how well you know each other, what you expect out of marriage, how to cope with the bad times and it does bring up the main contention points, i.e. children, affairs, finances to see how you would deal with them. It prepares you for living your life with someone else and I would recommend these courses for anyone preparing to get married. It opens your eyes to the reality of it all.

It doesn't sound as if you have known your dp for very long, so wait a little longer anyway. I would rather wait for a while than to rush into things or be pressured into things that fall apart soon after. As for marrying a friend, that's exactly what I did, our passion levels are not the same and sometimes we are not on the same wavelength at all, but that is what makes our relationship interesting, breaks us out of that rut that many other people fall into and keeps the fires burning. He is my best friend as well as my husband, that is all you can hope for, sex is not the be all and end all of a marriage, if my dh was left paralysed tomorrow I would still stick with him, if he became impotent I would not leave him. You need a solid foundation and sex is certainly not a foundation.

Can you go to Relate on your own? I think that talking to someone else, a stranger, might do you the world of good.

Confusedfeelings
Lovely news. Sounds to me like you and dp have the makings of a very strong, honest relationship. Wishing you every happiness, Mopsy x