So where now

[SeriouslyIneedtonamechange]

Clearly I've name changed :)

I've been here before. Dh has issues with alcohol. He's probably an alcoholic (but a very functional one). I love him. He's a great guy but he drinks to cope with his anxiety.

I thought we were getting there and we were past it all. We went out tonight. I've matched him drink for drink. I'm not claiming to be sober but I'm typing in coherent sentences (I hope). He's completely and utterly plastered. Clearly he's been drinking on top of what I've seen but when challenged he claims not.

I don't know what I do now. He's a "great dad" (but honestly if we went for custody he probably spends more time with the kids than I do and I am not any better a parent). I love him but I can't deal with the deceit. It's not that being this drunk is an issue, it's that being this drunk but lying to my face about whether or not he's drunk more than I've seen is an issue. It's the randomness, I think everything's ok and then something hits me out of the blue.

Long term I probably know what I need to do. It's his choice and he's made it. But how do I do it?

A great dad would not be plastered when he has children in the house, I know you want to help him but you have to be cruel to be kind, personally I'd cut him free until he can prove to you that he is actually doing something about it, it's just a matter of time before something really awful happens and why should you be his saviour, he's a big boy now, he has to do all the arranging, not YOU, or it will never work.

seefield I know in theory it's a myth about religion but honestly the groups here are American dominated (we're in the gulf) and very religious. The front page of the local website includes this quote on the details of the big book meeting: ".......THERE IS ONE WHO HAS ALL POWER - THAT ONE IS GOD MAY YOU FIND HIM NOW!" So whilst I appreciate that in theory the belief in a higher power can be your cat, that's really not how the vast majority of attendees think here. Adding in the fact that being atheist isn't exactly legal and it's not great!

Justaboy - AA isn't affiliated to any religion. It's just that local groups are very influenced by the people who organise them (and all praise to those who put in such a lot of time and effort doing so). In, eg, London there are several groups to choose from in different locations every day. Here there isn't even a meeting every day. I doubt there are more than about 10-20 AA members in the city (and most not regular attendees). Meetings will have max five people attending whereas in other locations it could be in the hundreds.

If we split I would probably stay here at least initially (work, school, childcare) and he'd be coming to see the kids every day and we'd have to work on effective co-parenting. I actually don't see that there's much in practical that would change except we'd not be together and he wouldn't stay over (and presumably the kids would stay some nights with him).

adora - seriously? I know a lot of parents who go out and drink a lot every now and again and that doesn't make them bad parents. For reference there were other responsible adults in the house who were sober. The issue isn't that he got drunk but that he lied about it and that he lies about how much he drinks. I appreciate your point that he has to want it. I know that.

However, I'm not about to throw him out until I mean it, it's not something to use in the hope that he sees the light. If I throw him out it is far far more likely that he will get worse than suddenly have an epiphany. I've been dealing with this for a long time now, I know the reality. I'm just trying to work out what is best for me and the kids. I threw him out once before and took him back, I've never regretted that.

And thanks everyone. I think no alcohol counselling here either (although I will check but I know there are pretty much no counsellors at all here). That might be worth him driving into the big city for though and they will have it there.

Can I just ask a couple of things to clarify?
Does he drink often, or is it when he does drink he drinks to excess and lies about it?
How often is it?
Are you concerned he's drinking in secret on a regular basis?
Is it the drinking, the lying or both?
Do you think he might be drink driving with the children in the car?
A close relative has an alcohol problem, AA worked off and on but again I think the religious aspect was a bit much for them, and also they didn't really want to stop.
They are currently dry for a good few months, but that has only come about as their spouse made it very clear that one drink any time, any place would mean divorce. I think they realised they meant it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they drink again if they want to and think they can get away with it. This was on the back of a 'blow out' when their spouse reacted quite differently to their normal reaction and I think they realised this 'was it'.
Re lying, it could be anxiety etc, but do remember addicts LIE. They lie, and lie and lie, for no reason other than the fact that they are addicted. Often they lie as they don't want to admit it to themselves as much as anyone else, and they certainly don't want to have to argue.
There are some who argue that alcoholism is an addiction, but it is still a choice not an illness. Saying it's a result of anxiety etc diminishes his responsibility/ability to do anything about it. He can't, he's too damaged, it's just him etc. But really, any issues re anxiety/depression can't be helped whilst drinking, so he needs to take responsibility for stopping that first. Alcohol can cause anxiety and depression, it'll certainly make any underlying conditions worse.

I'm not about to throw him out until I mean it
I agree, in my experience they up the ante, you crack and try to 'save' them, you've weakened your position further and things carry on as before.
Addicts tend to be very manipulative too, so it really won't achieve anything unless you mean it and are able to detach emotionally and see it through.

The issue is him hiding what he drinks. He's a functional alcohol, we're not talking someone who's drinking several bottles of vodka a night and pissing the bed and who can't get up for work in the morning. The problem is when he gets stressed he will drink and he won't tell me he's doing it. He does have a habit of drinking too much when we're out - as in more than the rest of the group is drinking but it's rare for him to be as drunk as he was on Wednesday.

At the moment I don't think he's drinking more than once or twice a week (and of course in theory he's stopped since yesterday) but the issue is once he starts drinking once or twice a week it slowly creeps up until it's most nights.

The big issue is the lying. It's the lying that will split us up.

I don't think he's drink driving with the kids in the car. He rarely drives them without me being in the car as well and I've never noticed it be an issue. He has done it at least once though (several years ago now). That's the time I threw him out before.

Finally, the anxiety isn't an excuse for me either. He needs to stop drinking and he needs to get help for the anxiety. I mention it because I don't think he'll ever manage to stop drinking long term if he doesn't get help with the anxiety.

SeriouslyIneedtonamechange Do you think a trial separation might help him get treated, seek treatment, or see sense even?.

Well he went to AA again last night (meetings aren't every day here) and said that that group was much better. There now isn't another meeting until next Friday (yes it's madness I know).

Justaboy, who knows whether a trial separation would make him see sense but I don't think I'm ready to go there yet. I need to think.

SeriouslyIneedtonamechange Yes i can only suppose its very difficult to cope with but i expect that sooner or later they'll be an event that might either trigger off him seeing sense and the cure is with him he's not the only alcoholic in the world or else its the parting of the ways ;(

Now tell me something I don't know i hear you say but quite what is there?

I've been away all week so we've barely spoken. I know he was planning to go to the meeting tonight but something for the kids was running over so he might not have made it. Guess I'll find out in the morning.

We have family visiting from tomorrow and he's said he's on strong painkillers as he doesn't want to have to justify not drinking to them. Issue is this particular family member (and others to be fair) is also a fairly heavy drinker and sees DH declaring he's an alcoholic as a judgment on them (which of course it isn't). Is going to be a fun month.

Are you in a country covered by the Hague Convention? Would you necessarily be able to return to UK with the DC if he vetoed it?

I also think it would be worth you having some counselling to help you through this.

My father was a functioning alcoholic. I knew. I knew when he had been drinking, I knew when he was plastered. I dreaded my parents going out; but I dreaded my mum not being there even more (he would drink solidly to the point of being comatose). I hated the fact that any social occasion ended the way you describe; I hated my parents arguing; I hated his voice when he was drunk, and his inability to be co-ordinated and do normal things, and that I did not know when alcohol fuelled behaviour would start or stop or how long 'normality' would last. I think my father drank as a coping mechanism, yes, but I always felt it was us (his family life) he could not cope with. My mum stayed because she did not want her children to grow up without a father.

None of which will help you; but really, I hope that he takes the steps to recovery that he needs to

I'm not in a Hague convention country and, in any event, I'm by no means certain I would return to the UK if we split anyway. I'm paid more here than I would be in the UK and childcare is cheaper.

Thanks Cocoabutton. I've never known him to drink until comatosed when he's in sole care of the kids (he would rarely drink to that state anyway and has probably done it no more often than I have during the course of our relationship). It's possible he's done it when I've actually been away for work but I've had nothing to suggest that (he's never not been contactable etc). I do take your point though - what's your relationship with your father like now?

He's still going to AA, still (to my knowledge) not drinking. One day at a time.