What's your definition of gaslighting?

[ExpatTrailingSpouse]

For whatever reason, a lot of articles have been popping up lately about gaslighting, so just wanted to get opinions on what that means to everyone.

I've been thinking hard about it and by definition feel like I've been gaslighted in the past, but then wonder if I'm just being paranoid.

Any examples people care to share? I'd love to hear.

[ExpatTrailingSpouse]

LH thank you for sharing your experience. now off to google what FROTTFSOF means...

[khaleesi71]

My poor DD had a terrible episode of gaslighting by her DF. She was visiting and he had told her that he never really thought he was her father (he is - sadly) but best not to mention it again he was sorry his mother was a filthy slut. She was devastated and the next day he acted as though nothing had happened. When questioned about it by her furious DS he denied it to both DD, EMIL and all and sundry. He expected her to berate me for being a slut and not tackle him over it. They don't speak at all now and both despise him.

[Scarydinosaurs]

My ex was a classic gaslighter, I felt constantly wrongfooted.

He would tell me I had done things, that I patently hadn't. Petty stuff, like left washing up out, or not started the washing machine.

The worst was when, mid argument, he tried to convince me I was a year older than I was. My indignity was too much. I realised then that he did it to win arguments and confuse me.

I am so much happier now I don't have to deal with that anymore.

[slightlyinsane]

This has been something I've thought about loads.
Tonight I was asked who had got h's iPad out, no one had but he's adamant he put it in a draw.
I know dam well he didn't because I knocked it off his draws this morning and had a panic I'd smashed the screen

[notarehearsal]

Lurking, would that example re MIL be just plain old nasty shit stirring? There are some nasty wicked folk out there who enjoy causing trouble. My understanding of gas lighting is more sinister. I think the action or words are consciously made in order to cause a particular person great emotional distress and confusion. Not just with what they are doing but by making the victim feel as if they are going mad

[LurkingHusband]

Lurking, would that example re MIL be just plain old nasty shit stirring?

I don't think so. I've only related the PG version here. There is an awful lot more (remember, she physically assaulted me while her partner restrained MrsLH).

I did try to post about it before, after name changing. However there was problem ... a mumsnetter read my namechanged post and immediately said they had only ever heard of someone that batshit before. You guessed it ! It was my description under this username . I had t get that thread pulled PDQ.

It says something that among all the truly mind boggling tales you read here, my MiLs behaviour could be spotted through a namechange !

Go figure !

[Myusernameismyusername]

I had an ex who almost brought on a psychotic episode. He was so good at it.
I can't really explain it in words. You had to be there. But I did go mad

[R2G]

My SIL does it. She has an issue with my child and is jealous of mine and my DM relationship. She tells tales of remembering my DM neglecting her daughter on her birthday to pander to my pregnancy.
The real truth was she called DM the day before the party and TOLD (she doesn't have manners) my DM to get a cake from a particular shop 20 minutes away. My DM said that she couldn't because she was collecting me as it was my due date and I wasn't able to drive, but could pick up a tesco one.
At the party I spent the entire time making tea and coffee for her friends and generally mucking in.
This was 10 years ago, but she recently texted me about her child being neglected while my DM pandered to me and nothing has changed. This was sparked by my mum being unable to do a party for her daughter at her house with 3 days notice because she was babysitting my DS while I attended a wedding of a very close friend who had suddenly decided to get married prior to cancer treatment. DM was there on her actual birthday - not neglecting - just couldn't do the party suggestion at the weekend.
When she was pregnant herself my mum had moved in with her for months to care for her as she was on bed rest.

[tiptoptap2]

The incident that made me reflect and realise that an ex gaslighted me was when I ran into one of his mates who told me ex had been to an event. I sent ex a message saying I heard you went to event, what was it like (we didn't live together thank god) and ex confirmed he had been but didn't say much more. The next time I saw him, I asked about event and he said 'I don't know what you're talking about' and denied going, when I tried to call him on it he denied lying. Suddenly things fell into place for me and I didn't even bother to get my phone out and show him his message. I realised that he was so tied up in his own web of lies that it was pointless.

[Nellyphants]

Mine was an ex who discussed holidays, trips days out then flat out denied wed discussed it. At his brother's & we were invited to stay for dinner. Ex said oh we can't I'm taking nelly for a posh meal iee better get going. In the car on the way home he flat out denied he said it. 'I was always putting pressure on him'. Just one small example.

[ExpatTrailingSpouse]

Dh has complained that I'm always shouting at him or being mean to him when he's done something I don't like (example, he's sat watching me mop floor then got up and walked across same floor eating crackers with no plate). I've been trying to modulate my tendency to snap about it, as I can see how it can feel hurtful to be on the receiving end of that, and have made sure on many many occasions to say something "nicely". However, on recounting these types of things, his default is to say I was "screaming" at him (complete with fake screamy voice) and am going crazy. I absolutely despise that because it makes me doubt myself even though I've made extra effort not to be shouty/nagging and makes me sound like I'm a crazy shrieking harridan! Even when he knows I've not even said anything other than please clean up after yourself.

[Uricon]

My mother,, seeing the tail end of a very mild disagreement (that was over in minutes) between me and then husband threw a complete fit and said that "I had never had to witness anything like what I had just put her through"

She was right. it bore no resemblance to the 25 years + of physically violent rows, screaming, stormings out and long periods of not speaking (6 months without a word was the record, it was a break really) that she and my dad put us through.

I could not help laughing, which made her even more angry. Ridiculous woman.

And that is my definition of gaslighting, I suppose.

[LurkingHusband]

I had an ex who almost brought on a psychotic episode. He was so good at it.
I can't really explain it in words. You had to be there. But I did go mad

You don't need to explain .

It would be far too identifying to go into detail, but I know both MrsLH and I have been diagnosed with PTSD, and I have some associated MH issues - mainly around persecution and paranoia.

[stubbornstains]

This is a genuine question: do most peoples' Dparents not have a totally different version of events in their childhood than they do? I just thought this was normal, but maybe not? .

My DF always told me I was a "happy child" until I was about 14, when I "went weird". Happy child? Was I fuck.

XP was terrible for distorting the truth, and gaslighting. We went on holiday, and I had to sub him for his half of the money, because he was skint. Several months later, in the course of an argument (all our discussions turned into arguments, "mysteriously"- hasn't happened with my other partners) I brought up the still unpaid amount. "For GOD's sake, we've DISCUSSED this", he goes. "We AGREED that I'd pay you back £50 a month from X date!". That discussion had never taken place. (He still owes me some of the money, probably to no one on this thread's surprise at all ).

[stubbornstains]

But, I have to add, I still don't know if this is deliberate gaslighting or some kind of mental issue (guess that's the point of this subtle kind of gaslighting, huh?). We're trying to arrange a couple of things via messaging right now, and it's amazing how he gets things wrong. "XP, Mr Bloggs says he'll be getting back from work 3.45- 4.00, if you can pick the stairgate up then". "OK, I'll be there at 4.00-4.15, he can leave it outside if he's gone out". No, he's coming back, not going out!! This sounds incredibly trivial, but when it happens All. The. Time, you start wondering if he's going mad, or if you are?

[SusieQwhereareyou]

Mine was a bit different in that it mainly focussed around exDH lying about his drinking - as he was an alcoholic, that does seem logical in a weird way - BUT the way he would do it would be to imply that it was my own anxiety and insecurity that made me suspect he had been drinking. Not the evidence of my own senses. It sounds ridiculous, if you can smell alcohol on someone of course they have been drinking. But when someone lies and lies and lies to you many times for years, you do doubt yourself. It made me very anxious and panicky and unable to trust my own judgement.

[Tanith]

I used to take photos of the calendar because the person I was living with would add important dates at the last minute, then start a row because "it's been on there for months!"

[LurkingHusband]

Intrigued by my own question, here's the film:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film)

or

www.imdb.com/title/tt0036855/

[LurkingHusband]

Alternatively, there is the touring show

www.ents24.com/birmingham-events/new-alexandra-theatre/gaslight-touring/4825846

Spookily popped up in a email after I pressed "Post" ?????

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

His training of you is going well. You have stopped telling him off when he does something annoying. You are being super careful to tell him off super nicely, preferably later on, if you do feel a burning desire to call him on his bad behaviour. This tactic is working extremely well for him.

The cracker incident sounds awfully like a test to see how outrageous he could get away with being.

Time to make it stop working for him. Time to make it this shitty tactic really really not work for him. Whether it is deliberate or not, it has to be a world of grief for him whenever he does it.

Got any ideas of how to do that?

[MariposaUno]

Wow lurking your mil is poison, I'm glad you and your partner could see and get through it together.

I have been gaslighted in past relationships when I didn't even know it had a name.
Told I said something when I never in an argument or one that always sticks to my mind which caused me great stress/confusion at the time even though it doesn't sound significant.
He would state his favorite juice that I would buy with the food shop one day he flipped and told me he hated that juice and that he told me, I think he did it several times and probably in other situationsections that I can't remember.

I now have the bullshit radar on high and if anyone try and tells me what I have said or done when I'm certain I haven't, I shoot them down pretty quick(flip) or I refuse to acknowledge what I'm supposed to have said and end it there.

[ABunchOfFuckingPidgeys]

What is it called when someone remembers something the same thing you did, but makes it sound like you've interpreted it wrong and are being silly by being upset? My Dad this so much that I sometimes have trouble wondering if I should speak up when something is unfair or hurts me

One example, after I had dd my Dad went through a phase of wanting to see me (dd really), nothing wrong in that on it's own, but he wouldn't ever come to mine, he didn't work and drove so it really would have been easier for him to come to me, and as it was a 30 min drive for him he'd have seen dd for longer, the I my way dd ever saw him was for me to get three buses over a two hour ride with a newborn and all the crap you have to carry with them, it could only happen on by Saturday as I worked and as the buses stopped running earlyish, he'd only have an hour or two with dd before I had to make the 2 hour trip home.

Now I know looking back he was a cunt for making me spend four hours on a bus with with a newborn but once when I brought it up he totally shut me down saying he didn't realise I was struggling to cope so much with dd that a bus ride was an issue, that I should have just said and of course he'd drive through to see me, that he'll contact social services to have respite changed to a Saturday so that he and his wife don't need to put her through a long car ride and that he and his wife just won't have a night out ever because I'm clearly not coping and that's more important, I felt like shit, brushed my own feelings aside and agreed to do the bus ride.

I should add my dsis did not have problems with car rides, I just didn't see it at the time, they would all drive to my brothers five mile away from me but calling at mine was too much. And I wasn't struggling to cope with dd at all, she was a brilliant baby, but four hours on public transport she'd sometimes grizzle. He worded it in such a way I felt like a shit mum and selfish person.

There's so many more examples of it and it's only now he's hone I'm working my way through it.

What's the word for that, is it gas lighting too?

[ExpatTrailingSpouse]

lurking i believe the new film girl on a train is going to have some gaslighting elements in it also.

runrabbit - i understand your point. i'm of two minds about it. on the one hand, i do personally recognize i can be naggy/bitchy or whatever you call it, and that in some cases i could do with tempering my instinctive pissed off shouty reaction. so i don't mind not saying something when it really is small and i can easily just let go. my attempted philosophy now is to go "whooooo-saaaaaa" (bad boys II anyone?) and let it go with a deep breath if i can. if he spill crackers on the floor and we get ants in the house? fine, he'll have to pay for an exterminator. he leaves piss on the floor? fine, he has to pay for the cleaner. he blocks the toilet up with chewing gum? fine, he has to pay for a plumber, etc etc. on the other hand, when i've merely made a sarcastic remark or used a stern tone of voice or done the tut-sigh, and he then turns around to say i've screamed at him, i refuse to accept that. but for a while, he had me checking my memory and having wobbles one whether i'd really toned down my reaction or not. in any case, things aren't going well (i think you've been on my other thread), so it may not be a problem much longer.

pidgey - i'm not sure ... that's why i'm asking the question too! but that's bloody awful behaviour. and if i've read right, your dad is being a jerk. for all my (step)dad's quirks and faults, he drove 1000 miles at least twice a year to see ds ... and refused any money for the motels and gas. (we go back too but he usually still has to drive 3-4 hrs each way to see us at my in-laws). i think that's another thing that you grow to realize over time and with experience - what BS you'll put up with or not. I hope that you've now realized what BS your dad pulls and don't allow it anymore.

Here's an example of what I think could fit the definition:
DH and I were in Caribbean at a relatives house with window open. Rain starts pouring and a large (2") cockroach flies in and lands on my head. In reality, I sat there petrified and waiting for DH (sitting next to me) to help get it off my head. After, when DH would tell the story, he would say "Expat ran around the room screaming get it off me get it off me!". Pissed me off to no end, because i absolutely did not even get up off the bed. He made me look like a lunatic. And I was pissed because in reality, he just sat there looking at me and not even lifting a finger to help til I said something to him. He told this story for years and years, and each time I would run through the incident in my head, trying to reconfirm to myself that I was remembering correctly. I finally made it absolutely clear to him that it was completely unacceptable to tell it with that lie in it, to make the story funny or for any other reason. He doesn't tell it anymore, but if he did and said I ran around screaming, I think I'd be ready to punch him in the nose.

[queenoftheknight]

My mother is a abuser who uses gaslighting.

I won't dwell on her treatment of me, but, it was incredibly validating when she did it to a friend. The friend was able to see exactly what she is. And was completely floored by her bizarre behaviour.

The friend and my mother were involved in a group. One of the people in the group was Bill. He was best friends with his next door neighbour, Paul.

They were both very active members of the group too.

Bill had been to our home, many, many, many times.

My mother had an affair with Paul. So was more than aware in this way too, of his best friend Bill.

When Bill died, my friend got in touch with my mother to tell her.

She denied all knowledge of ever having known him.

My friend was floored. She simply didn't understand why. This was chicken feed compared to the stuff she'd done to me growing up. But it was good that a completely independent third party was left in a state of utter bewilderment.

There is no explanation. They live in a vortex of insanity, where nothing makes sense. There is no continuity of history. There is only the emotional hit of the current moment. Nothing else, and no one else exists for these people.

The ONLY answer, is to keep well away!

Names have been changed....obvs!