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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

do you think sometimes friends are simply enemies in disguise?

23 replies

trying2bgood · 04/02/2007 21:01

Okay, I had lunch recently with two good friends, one has a baby & is back at work and the other is a single professional. It seemed to be going fine but then the conversation turned to having children and working, I am a SAHM. They both went on about how important it was to go back to work and how as women why should we say at home and let our brains rot etc etc, dismissing what I had to say and at several points my single friend used her knowledge on parenting gained from reading a times article to 'correct' me. They then went on to put down people who married young - I would say I married relatively young! I am not sure if they even realised that they were insulting me! What do you think I should do? Part of me thinks I should let it go as I don't see them all the time & perhaps they are just ranting because their own lives are not great & they are trying to make themselves feel better, but another part of me thinks it is time to cut ties and find people who respect my life choices.

OP posts:
sunshinestarr · 04/02/2007 21:14

isn't funny you should post this as i was thinking the exact same thing about a gf which i thought was close, but when i look back she did a lot of undermining and if it wasn't at me it would be at another friend...hmmm

i put it down to they feel crap bout themselves and what you to feel crap too.

If they bring it up again I'd be saying something to them cos if they're really good friends they'd put up with what you have to say and move on.

Besides the best job in the world is being a mommy they prob jelly they cant stay home and be with their baby instead feel they gotta wear their panties on the outside to let everyone know they're a career mommy aka supermum

Whoooosh · 04/02/2007 21:19

sounds like they are trying to "justify" their own existances.
I have to admit,I would have had similar views to them a few yaears ago but I now know there is no harder or more rewarding job than a SAHM.And whilst I work full time-I haev the utmost respect for SAHMs who do a good job.

If you value their friendship=go with it-if not,then move on.

Original poster
trying2bgood · 04/02/2007 22:09

I have known them forever and will probably let it go but it is food for thought, and makes me realise that sometimes your oldest friends are not necessarily your best.

OP posts:
Whoooosh · 04/02/2007 22:17

Couldn't agree more-some of the people who understand me best and give me the most support are my "newest" friends.

Good luck.

Astrophe · 04/02/2007 22:17

grrrr, I feel for you. I have a friend who often insults me, my dh and dcs, always as thinly veiled sarcasm or 'throw away' lines. It hurts, but then in some ways she is a great friend. I've come to reslise that its part of her personality and her own insecurities, and i know if I brought it up it would be very hard, as she is very uptight. So I leave it. [sigh]

ScummyMummy · 04/02/2007 22:20

Maybe they were being tactless? Not that that's good, of course. I think I'd suggest giving them one more chance and if this sort of things crops up again saying in a jokey tone, "Ahem! I don't work at the moment, remember? You trying to tell me I have no brain?" If they don't wriggle uncomfortably and grovel apologetically they might not be very good friendship material after all.

vizbizz · 04/02/2007 22:58

I have a friend like this. I thought she was a good friend, but looking back I realise she wasn't really.

I still keep in touch with Xmas cards and the occasional email (she lives a bit far away these days). I often think this is more for what used to be, than for any real connection we have now.

popsycal · 04/02/2007 22:59

there is a quote at the beginning of a poem by jonathan swift, which is in turn a quite from some french poet......
let me find it

Original poster
trying2bgood · 05/02/2007 09:09

tah everyone! Look forward to that quote pops

OP posts:
SSShakeTheChi · 05/02/2007 09:14

I'd do something like duck and say, "whoah I feel under fire here. After all I'm a SAHM and I married young!" (You know turn the table on them, they did it deliberately, of course they did. Women, even your "friends" can be such a catty bunch. We all know it. Why let them get away with it?

I was having coffee with a Polish mum last week. We both live in Germany so our kids speak German at school. Mine speaks Engish at home, hers doesn't. She told me she made a conscious decision that ds would only speak German. Parents, she says, who bring up their dc to be bilingual are selfish. They only do it for themselves.

Well, yes thank you for the attack. What was that? PMT?! I just pulled her up on it, "oh well you know I'm bringing up dd to bilingually". Smile.

It flusters them a bit.

popsycal · 05/02/2007 13:53

oh arse
my computer crashed last night
bet you all could nto sleep waiting dfor this quote hey:O)

popsycal · 05/02/2007 13:57

oh here it is:

In the adversity of our best friends we often find something which does not displease us. [Fr., Dans l'adversite de nos meilleurs amis nous trouvons toujours quelque chose ne nous deplaist pas.]
Author: Francois Duc de la Rochefoucauld

Isyhan · 05/02/2007 15:27

I used to have similar views but never used to say it to my friends as I didnt want to upset them. Perhaps they are aquaintances not friends (apols for spelling)

happynewme · 09/02/2007 18:30

The one without a baby can't comment as she hasn't even had a kid yet!
The other is probably feeling guilty.
IMO anyway!
Don't be with people that bring you down or make you feel bad about yourself.

VoodooWizbit · 09/02/2007 18:36

IMO people who know nothing about it tend to get very very passionate about the whole SAHM thing...when I was finishing work about 5 of them said 'you will be so bored, you will end up coming back to work early...'
well, I LOVE being a SAHM and luckilly can continue as one till May when I do have to go back.
These silly mares just thoughtlessly express their opinion to justify their choice - take with a pinch of salt.
The one who read the Times probably felt really clever being able to quote it and all...

ItsMeMellowma · 09/02/2007 18:39

In answer to the op, YES!

peanutbutterkid · 09/02/2007 21:01

I had this weird conversation with a 'friend', where I basically said about someone else "She was really rude to me", and 'friend' replied, "Well, she's a successful business-woman and she doesn't suffer fools gladly".

I mean, what is that supposed to mean? It still smarts. Do you ever think that sometimes inadvertently people tell you much more than they meant to, about what they really think of you?

Dawnybabe · 09/02/2007 21:15

If you can notice that someone is being really tactless, be smug, cos they didn't notice and/or are being thick and arrogant, and you can take the moral high ground!

You do tend to find though that you can look at a person that you have known for years and think 'we have absolutely nothing in common anymore' and realise that you have outgrown each other. Sad but true. Don't hang onto meaningless friendships for the sake of it if they actually drag you down now. Best to remember them as they were!

Pages · 10/02/2007 09:24

Haven't read the whole thread, but they sound like they feel guilty and are trying to convince themselves. If they aren't like this all the time and there are other things that you like about them I would let it go. They probably weren't meaning to be hurtful.

Btw most of the traditional child development experts(ie John Bowlby) have very strong arguments in support of children being at home with their mothers in the early years, and there has been a lot in the news lately in support of this theory, so not sure which article your friends were showing you. But I read a good study recently which supported exactly what I have always thought which is children are better off with a happy mother and that it is the quality of childcare that is important, whether it be mum or a good nursery. A depressed mum who needs a break is as bad for the child as is poor daycare. But if you want to stay at home with your children and actively enjoy it that is ideal.

So you and your friends are all doing the right thing for your children.

I do have a friend who I am steering clear of a bit because I notice that she often makes me feel bad about myself, she blows very hot and cold, and I think if you are consistently leaving their company feeling upset or in turmoil it is an indicator that you may need to find new friends.

Pages · 10/02/2007 09:36

Sorry, I missed that one was a single professional. It seems very clear that they were both "justifying" their lifestyle choices.

Pages · 10/02/2007 09:37

My mother is like this, she always finds a theory to support that she is right about something and others are wrong.

BernieBear · 10/02/2007 09:51

Agree, they are trying to justify themselves and often people who do this are not happy with their situations.

I also believe that friendships with certain "old" friends go in cycles. I've certainly had experiences of this recently. One very old friend was doing what you describe to me a few years ago. I maintained a distance as I was often hurt and upset after seeing her. Now she is back on the "radar" (funnily enough is expecting her first dc in a few months) and we are as close as ever. However another old friend has dropped off the radar but I am sure we will be close again at some point in the future. I guess what I am trying to say is that if friends are upsetting you, maintain a distance for your own sanity but keep some sort of contact. An old friendship often returns.

Twiglett · 10/02/2007 10:00

they're just being stupid

they're not being willfully insulting I don't think

they're basically pontificating from their own realm of experience without employing any empathy for the individual life circumstances of those present ..

and when one doesn't have children one is the best parenting expert in the world, I remember I certainly was .. just smile benignly at that and say something like 'well when and if you have children I'd love to talk to you again about it' and then laugh

personally I don't think being a SAHM is hard work and always laugh when people say, somewhat patronisingly I always feel 'oh but you have the hardest job in the world' .. what? really? is that really what you think? I get to do what I want, when I want with the people I like the most in the world most of the time.. I think its easy

.. but then I didn't think my job was hard work either .. it comes down to enjoyment .. if you enjoy what you're doing then its the best thing possible for you

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