Don't know where to start....

[troubleatmill2011]

As the title says, way too much to write in just this post, but suffice to say, been married 6 years, not getting on for the last 1. No sex for 9 months, no cuddling or kissing for around 1-2 months. We are away on holiday with friends and we've had to share a bed, we haven't at home for a while and nothing's happened. Built up the courage to ask for a kiss this morning and was turned down flat, feel about as attractive and wanted as a wet fish. Fed up doesn't cover it......just wanted to tell someone. Thanks for reading.

Is part of the reason why you don't just get on with telling him its over is you fear his reaction? Is he one of these that won't let you go without a fight harass you indefinitely because he's a control freak or will start being nasty? It takes sooo much energy to leave men like this.

And I agree with Imperial - so much better to make the decision yourself. You are in control then.

Everything your saying sadly rings so true, and even more hard hitting is I know your all totally right. I can imagine he'd become very hard work if I said I was leaving. The house is solely in my name - mortgaged so although we're married I don't know where I stand legally. I am also very ashamed of another failed marriage - I do also feel totally played and currently controlled by his emotional effect he is having on me

Well one way to get out from the "totally played and currently controlled by his emotional effect" is to leave .

I say that glibly but I suspect that if you got some space from him then feeling played would go away. I also suspect you'd get more energy to find a way to deal with his hard work ways.

I get you about the shame aspect though. It should be easier to be able to break out of an unhealthy relationship without the judgement. However, ultimately how much longer can you live like this? He is not showing any willingness to put any effort into sorting this out.

I know its an old cliché but do you think there could be someone else already and his projecting his guilt on to you and making your life hell?

There's a legal section where you could ask about the house. Do you pay the mortgage on your own? Does he work?

On the way home from the holiday just simply say to him 'it's quite obvious we have no relationship anymore. Neither of us need to be to blame but I'm calling time and hope we can both be adult about it'. Then pack up either yours or his stuff depending on the housing set up and separate. He sounds like a dick tbh

You'll never be happy with a man who is unhappy with you, unkind to you, rejects you, withholds affection, refuses to communicate openly and doesn't love or respect you. There's no shame in a second divorce, that's life, it's short, live it to be happy.

First get legal advice on any concerns you have with money/assets. If you fear he'll cause you problems if you leave then ensure he can't contact you or get you alone. Be brave, move on, do what will make you happy and he won't. You can't change other people, only allow them to have a role in your life or not.

The thing is, without children what would you stay for?

For you? You're not getting what you need from this. He won't even kiss you. You're walking on eggshells.

For him? He's not happy with you and isn't afraid to let you know it.

For society at large? We really don't mind if you leave him!

Thanks for all your messages. I don't know why I stay, my head says LTB but my heart says we can work this out. We had a chat and he said amongst other things that I sometimes act like a man, in the way i speak (language use) and way I laugh etc. He said I don't act feminine - that really hurt, I'm not a girly girl but I like to feel and look feminine. I'm very hurt. We've fell out again this afternoon over something petty. I feel like this cycle of arguments is never going to stop. Thanks for reading, hand holding needed

It seems like he's now consciously trying to hurt you. My ExH did this. It got worse and worse.

He was playing away.

Here to hold your hand, btw, I should have said. Something's not right, and he's a tosser for putting you through the emotional wringer like this.

I don't think he's playing away, I'm pretty sure of that, I think he'd be gone if there was someone else. He seems to enjoy the argument and falling out, like he's purposely going out of his way to happen - is this a form of abuse? I can't think clearly...

He said today I'm bloody awful to him, I don't see I am - am I not seeing something j myself?!

Have a word with your heart. Your head is the boss of what you do, not your heart. Your heart is a toddler that screams "I want, I want, I want!!!". Your head is the adult who decides what is the right thing to do "You want that but you need this. We are doing this."

Like when your heart says "I waaaant to eat that cake!" and your head says, "No, you've decided to stay away from junk food today" and then you leave the cake counter and when you fit into your skinny jeans again you feel happy with yourself but if you give into your inner toddler and eat the cake you feel shit later.

Is he trying to get you to leave him? He does sound like a manipulator.

Thanks Rabbit that was a lovey response, my head is sensible and I know very deep down the right thing to do is separate. If we did I wouldn't want to talk to anyone about it in real life but I guess I don't have to give details to anyone.

I don't know what he'd say if I said I was leaving. He has said its over many times but I've always begged him to try again - what a fool I am, I am so ashamed of how pathetic that sounds and feel like I have no self respect

Yes, the cycle of arguments is never going to stop.

He seems to enjoy the argument and falling out Who cares if the label of abuse fits? That's a shit way to live, unless you share his love of arguments.

When you had that chat and he called you too masculine, did you laugh at the ridiculousness of it and tell him to fuck off? If not, what did you do? And what was the point of him saying that? What was his point?

You can make all the arrangements to leave, tell him you are leaving and leave right then. So you don't have to listen too much of what he says about you leaving.

I expect everyone else has noticed he is a selfish twat. Tell them "We haven't been happy for quite a long time now. Unfortunately it is too dead to revive."

Hi Rabbit, I think I said to him that sometimes he talks to me like I'm a bloke he works with as opposed to his wife, and that's when he said it. I didn't really say anything as I was so gobsmacked - I already felt unattractive when he wouldn't kiss me earlier in the day and that just finished me off. I got upset and once we finished talking (stopped when he decided we'd talked enough) I was still sniffing and he asked me 'was I going to be blubbing all night'. I feel totally unloved

Re: the masculine accusation - he knows exactly how to hurt you and does so ruthlessly. There you were trying to have a reasonable conversation and he torpedoed you again. This pattern is so familiar. His aim is to undermine you , confuse you and try to get you to question yourself continually. This leaves you in a constant state of confusion, which renders you useless as a saviour for yourself. You do need to end it. My Xh used to threaten divorce on a regular basis because he knew that would upset me the most - I used to beg him not to say that, which only confirmed to him what an effective weapon he had. Vicious. When I eventually took a huge deep breath and issued divorce proceedings, he went to a whole new level of outrage. So likeattila says, they don't actually want divorce, they just want to carry on taunting and bullying!

Perhaps the best thing to do - and I really like runrabbit's v useful head/heart idea - is to lower any estimate you have of his regard for you. Consider that he actually has zero respect or care for you - as that is exactly what he is showing you.

Good luck OP. Don't be ashamed. He has failed you.

But what if it is me and what he is saying is true and that I am the issue, how do I know? He said today I stress him out and I answered him back saying I hadn't even been near him. Then later he flatly denied saying that I stress him out, he said I was making it up but I know he said it, I heard it - he was trying to make out I had I made it up but I very sure he said it.

trouble he is gaslighting you. This man is not your friend in anyway. Please see a solicitor and get advice about the house and any other assets. Get your ducks in a row and then tell him to leave. He wants you to think you are the one in the wrong in the relationship but it is him manipulating things - choose freedom.

troubleatmill - you have no need to doubt yourself. He is doing this to you. Gaslighting is intended to make you question yourself. Don't engage with this stuff. You don't have to justify yourself to him. You are not mad. What he is doing is classic control and headfuckery.

You need to get out of this relationship. He is not your friend as PPs have said. There is nothing worse than someone - who is supposed to love you the best - pretending to be your friend while acting like your enemy. He is your enemy I'm afraid. It is awful and it must fill you with grief, but you must use this knowledge and get him out of your life. Really.