Moving Abroad am I being selfish...?

[MrsChristmas123]

I am 60 and retired, live alone and financially independent.

My mother is widowed, aged 91 and is reasonably fit. However, she has just been diagnosed with mild dementia. She lives next door to me and I have looked out for her for the past 4 years since my father passed away. I have a brother who lives 80 miles away who visits every few months. My brother and me have looked after mum between us, sorting out her garden, getting her shopping. She copes very well on her own and only asks for help when she absolutely needs to. She is very independent.

My son lives abroad, my daughter lives in London and my youngest has just left her job to travel for 3 months and, at the moment she is living with me until she goes.

I am not in relationship.

I have had a long time urge to live abroad, just for a year or two, when my family grew up and left home. I had planned to do some voluntary work but not sure what though. I had planned to rent my house out for a year and see how it goes. I had planned to move to Spain next July 2017.

However, my plans may not come to fruition. My mother is getting increasingly forgetful and I can see that her memory is getting worse by the month. The problem is that she has refused all care that has been offered to her. My brother and me have tried to talk to her to persuade her to have a home help, cleaner, gardener but she obstinately refuses it. As I live next door she always turns to me for help and support which I am more than happy to give her. I have told my brother my plans and he has said, point blank that he will not move nearer to help. He says that it would be a 'backward step'.

The other problem that I had not considered is my youngest daughter. If she moves back with me when she returns from travelling then I can't rent my house out as I planned. I have mentioned my plans to her but she became extremely critical of me, implying that I should not leave her grandmother (my mum) without someone to look after her. I explained that it would not be for another year and anything could happen in that time and that mum had refused all help. My daughter has now said that she will give up her career plans and look after my mum if I move abroad. Now, my middle daughter has got involved by telling my youngest daughter not to do this because it would wreck her work prospects for the future. My middle daughter supports my plans to travel abroad.

I know I am being selfish but I bought my kids up single handedly since they were very small and I have looked after my mum virtually on my own for the past 4 years. I just feel it is my time now and if I don't do this next year I'll be too old.

I guess it is up to my conscience and I do have to make sure my house is ready to rent by next July, whatever happens because I need to find somewhere smaller. If I stay and continue to be here for mum as and when she needs me, life would seem very empty and I know I will get resentful.

What would you do?

Ah god, this is so hard, I really don't know what to advise. She will refuse outside help, she will refuse outside help when you are on your knees with exhaustion and despair but that's not because she's selfish, it's because she's a frightened old lady with dementia who is desperately trying to pretend that she isn't a frightened old lady with dementia.

You could still go away but make sure the care is organised before you go. You could go for 3 or 6 months instead of a year. You could stay until she dies but insist on a care package to supplement your caring. You and your daughter could share care along with professional care.

Your daughter is a sweetheart but she doesn't understand how hard caring for someone with dementia is. I doubt she could cope on her own and she probably won't have the assertiveness that you do to stop social services and NHS trying to dump all responsibility upon her (not out of callousness, purely lack of funding and desperate gratitude to family who will step up).

Also, just a couple of other points.

Your plans for a year abroad seem very vague. You think you might volunteer but you don't know doing what. You suggest Spain. Are there actually any openings for a 60 year old volunteer in Spain? Is this a realistic option or a pipe dream?

Secondly, your daughter taking a year out to care for her grandmother will not wreck her career as suggested by her sister. Lots of people take a year out or more for personal reasons.

Hi heddagarbled

Thank you for your message.

I have several qualifications that could be useful at any age namely I am a qualified domestic abuse adviser, I have several legal qualifications, I am a qualified Pilates teacher, I am learning Spanish and have just completed a course to teach English as a foreign language.

I think everyone should have dreams pipe or otherwise don't you?

But I think it's irreverent what my dreams are in this case it's the chance to realise them is what I am wrestling with,

Thank you for your comments and advise very much appreciated

The way I look at these things is this... If I was your mother and you were my daughter I would tell you to go. I did not give birth to my sons to take care of me. They have one life and should live it.

you're a good mum. I always felt guilt tripped by my mum and her property even as a child.

Branching out of my own was seen as a slight to her.

Absolutely SS will minimise the amount of care they will offer while there is someone, anyone to pick up the rest.

DH and his siblings were told that DMiL would be fine with someone coming in a couple of times each day. They had to insist that for that to work DMiL would have to be locked in (she had started to wander) and the gas and water switched off as she wasnt safe left alone.

Brutal but true.

DMiL is now in a care home. The woman who cared about her appearance with a pin sharp memory has gone. What is left is the shell.

Staying to look after your DM wont stop this happening. You will be left to care for your DM until you can no longer cope. You will then be having to make all the decisions about care when you are on your knees with exhaustion and your DM is in the midst of a health crisis.

Start making plans now.

Thank you for all of your advice, it has really helped me towards make a decision...difficult and painful as that will be.

I had fervently hoped that Mum would have accepted some sort of support outside her family but it looks like that is not going to happen any time soon. I know that this is down to her dementia and she really, really thinks that she can go on ad infinitum. If she had taken some help initially then it would be have been the 'thin end of the wedge' and it could have increased over time and she would have got used to it eventually.

Mum is an extremely proud lady, independent and private and the very thought of strangers coming into her home are abhorrent to her and I understand that. Even I have to make some sort of appointment to go and see her!

We have to work with Mum's situation as it is now and not how we hoped it would be. I know that my brother(who is older than me) will not do any more than what he is doing now and is fully supportive of what I intend to do and tells me that we are not obligated to our parents. We have both spoken to Mum together after she was diagnosed about how concerned we were for her well being but respected her decision to not accept any outside help. However, we did make it clear to her (as kindly as we could) that there would be a limit on our availability to be there for her but that if she asked for our help we would do what we could. All she would say was that she 'was fine, she didn't need help and she can cope, thank you very much'.

I will not and cannot wait around for the probability that Mum will collapse this month, this year, this decade. I will continue to do what I can for her over the next year and, if she is still coping by July 2017 then....

Thank you once again.

Dementia doesn't make you refuse care.

Refusing care and forcing and emotionally blackmailing your children into oroviding it is very far from being confined to dementia sufferers.

If anything it is easier to arrange care for people whose memory is failing.

It is selfish to refuse help she needs.

Just because she is old and frail doesn't mean she is an angel.

I think it is great that your brother is so clear about what he can offer and will support you to live your own life.

Good morning everyone

Just popping our heads in to say thank you for the reports about this thread and to place a quick reminder saying that we don't tolerate sockpuppeting or personal attacks on Mumsnet.

Thank you! Hope you all have a good day.

I don't think you're selfish at all but I can understand how difficult you're finding the situation you're in and the competing demands.

There are lots of volunteering opportunities for your age group abroad.

My suggestion is that you sort out a volunteering opportunity first and then organise everything else around that. So, eg, sort out a 3 month or 6 month placement.

I think it will be easier to organise everything else if you can say, eg, well I'm going on a 6 month trip to Kenya in April 2017.

That way you're not closing the door completely.

It really isn't selfish. She's not facing up to things, she's in denial or doesn't realise the seriousness of things.

My DFIL was the least selfish man but we went through the same with him. It was easier once the illness progressed to get him to accept the help he needed.

I've had similar with my own health and mental wellbeing, I can relate.

My DH also had similar after his DF did pass away and he struggled. Didn't realize the harm to his relationship with me and our DD as he was living a nightmare.

All of us are good people who haven't accepted when we've needed help in the past.

Whether you go or not, can I just make a few points?

Depending on the type of dementia she could go downhill v fast or live another decade. I'd be talking to the docs to see what the details are. Is this vascular dementia? Alzheimer's?

The time to get care arrangements and legal things sorted is before it's a necessity. If she has dementia at some point you may want power of attorney before she becomes too vulnerable- this is much much easier to get when someone still is in reasonably sound mind.

You must have carers. It's hard enough caring for a doddery but alert elderly person - you cannot provide the level of care she will need as time passes, no matter how dedicated you are. she will need specialist care eventually. That's a really crucial point for the whole family to accept. Too many people assume a female relative will do it all, and they don't understand the level of care needed.

Uou need to sit down with family and put the following cards on the table:

1. Dementia is a one way street. She will deteriorate physically and mentally.
2. At a certain point you will be unable to provide the personal, nursing etc care she needs. Ask them for example if they think you're up to physically carrying/lifting/toileting etc, multiple times a day.
3. Care must be sorted before that point is reached
4. Familiarity with routine is important- let's get a carer in say once a week do she's used to them
5. You need power of attorney
6. The care package needs to be robust - what if you get sick, for example?

I personally would approach this not from the point of you wanting to go away but from the clear eyed need to do what's best for your mum. And the rest of the family need to face the fact that it will be hard work and a one way trip.

Whether you go or not, get that care package in place - I suggest you call Age Concerm who are absolutely brill and well versed in all this. We ended up with two carers four times a day which enabled our relative to live in her own home until 95 -,she wasn't demented though. Dementia needs special care.

Good luck. It's a hard road.

Hi there

Thank you very much for your post.

I have done everything that you have suggested. Mum has already a power of attorney and that is all she will consent to.

Please read my earlier post about my mother's stubborn refusal to accept care of any description.

We would have been over the moon if mum could have agreed any or all of the suggestions that you kindly made but she has refused all help.

My mum will not allow us access to her medical records and will not allow us to accompany her to her various medical appointments. She keeps my brother and me at arms length.

You were very kind to take the time to make the very valid suggestions but I have spent the last two years to try and get mum to even get a diagnosis of dementia.

Mum is still considered to have mental capacity and has been diagnosed with mild dementia and she has made the decision that she wants NO outside intervention or help.

There is nothing that my brother and me can do and our hands tied until Mum decides otherwise or there is a medical emergency.

Sorry to appear ungrateful but I have been through this loop with Alzheimers UK, Age Concern and it all comes back to the fact that mum has mental capacity and can make her own decisions about what happens to her. Meanwhile, my brother and me have to stand helplessly by.

Sorry, it is so frustrating for me and I cannot stand it any more.

Dementia can progress quickly, but it could also grumble on for years. Often the only way to make elderly people accept care is to refuse to provide it for them.
If you feel moving abroad is too much at the moment I would start making yourself less available. Go out more, answer your phone less.
I agree that power of attorney is important as then you get a say in what happens, although if your mum is considered competent to make a particular decision you can't usually over ride that.
I would not want my kids to stay looking after me when they'd rather be elsewhere.
Many people with dementia do have no insight in to how bad they are and don't hear their family when they say they can't/ won't help and they have to get other people involved.

I don't even know what sort of dementia mum has because I have never met her consultant and was told in no uncertain terms to stay outside. Mum has made it clear to the dementia services that she does not want her daughter involved.

There is nothing more that I can do for her other than help her when she asks.

I work for a couple with dementia. They 'manage' quite well and have done for the last FIVE years (I do a bit of housework for them)

Its such a tough decision for you but this could go on and on. It sounds awful written down. Please live your life OP

Thank for your idea about not answering the phone and going out more. I do all of those things but sometimes mum will just turn up on my doorstep wanting help...what can I do..turn her away?

I love my mum very much but I regret that she lives so near because it is so easy for her to just pop next door for help and I can't very well say no can I?

I am well truly tied up like a kipper and the only way out for me now is to move away before I sleepwalk into being a full time carer by default.

You probably think that I am cruel and heartless but walk a mile in my shoes.

This thread makes me very sad.

I understand - our relative was the same - total refusal.

What changed it , and what will likely change it for you, was the first serious fall/getting locked out in the cold/urinary tract infection. That sets in motion the cycle of hospital admission, loss of physical condition, rehab and return home. At that point we had no choice but to get carers in because we physically couldn't do the lifting needed. She had no choice either - and believe me, she was stubborn as a mule. Eccentric, massive temper... It was awful.

Unfortunately, the situation will probably rumble on until you have one of these crisis points. It's exhausting, dispiriting and frustrating.

I'm so sorry. It's so hard. There are no easy answers.

In your shoes I'd book maybe a 2-3 month trip - perhaps that will force the issue?

That cycle is depressingly familiar and went on for many years in our case.

As it stands at the moment you have no control and are in a no win situation until your mother allows herself the help she needs and deserves.

Il be honest th eway your brother made it so very clear he wont be helping much would possibly have broken her heart so she has been very stubborn and determined to keep you both at arms length in an attempt to carry on with out your help, despite the fact she quite clearly relies on you.

I will say by personal experience in both my family and proffesional lives i have met many people who had regrets and wished they had been around more, im am yet to meet anyone who said i wish id not been there- in my own family ive see the pain in my parents faces as they took it in shifts caring for their parents for different conditions and all but one passed away at home - my parents and their siblings have no regrets and never considered it as a hardship they wouldnt take on.

My grandma had vascular dementia. She was diagnosed in her mid eighties and lived til she was 101. She had three children, one local, one 300 miles away (my mum) and one halfway round the world. She was in a care home and My mum was the one who saw her often.

I can't tell you what to do but your mum is lucky she has several family members who care.

I have done tefl in Spain Btw and it was amazing. I was in my twenties but several on my course were around 60. I think it's a great thing to do.

Hi

Thank you for your reply and I admire and respect your family's devotion over the years to your aged parents. It sounds like, from what you said, that were/are several of you helping out?

I think the issue for me is that I am coping with this alone. I have no partner, my children live away, (except my youngest who is here with me on a fleeting visit before she goes travelling). There are no friends, relatives or neighbours whom Mum will allow into her life to help us. As I have said, she is an extremely private lady who has created this complete image of a strong independent woman coping extremely well and she does, to a degree provided nothing goes wrong for her.

The main problem for me is when something does goes wrong for Mum and she is not capable now (due to age, fraililty and dementia) of dealing with it herself but she never has had to cope because I have always been here over the past 4 years to pick up the slack. She panics and her first port of call is me because I am metres away from her house.

So if the fuses go (which they do a regular basis) I will get a phone call or visit to my door from Mum asking me to go over with a torch in the dark help. I do her shopping for her, I take her to her Dr and hospital appointments, I sort out her rubbish every week, if she loses her keys I am summoned to help find them and all the million one things you have do if you own a home. I also have to do this for my own home too. I am not moaning I am very happy to do this because I am retired and my family are offhand, to extent.

However, as I have said, my mother's memory and capabilities are rapidly declining as the months pass.

My brother sorts out the garden for her, her paperwork and bills when he comes every few months..

The other issue that my brother and me deal with is that she will not let us have access to any money to pay for things for her. So, if the garden needs doing or work is done to her house, we have get mum to write a cheque which, if anyone knows about dementia takes ages. She will only pay cash or cheque so we arrange things and mum pays. It is extremely longwinded, frustrating and time consuming, on top of everything else.

It is hard to help a frail elderly lady with early dementia who just wants help on her terms, immediately.

I just don't think I can do this for mum long term because I think it will ruin our relationship. I am getting more and more resentful and have come close to losing the plot with Mum.

The answer is for mum to accept outside help and she won't do that.

Hello OP, I feel for you in your situation. I had similar with my parents, particularly the refusing to accept outside help part. It took a crisis (DM's mental health) for community mental health and social services to step in and take it out of my hands somewhat. After DM died, DF wanted the carers to stop coming, saying he didn't need them any more, (and he didn't want to pay for them!) but he was clearly (to everyone else) not fully capable of looking after himself.

I lived 50 miles away so a lot of time was spent shuttling back and forth and I recognise all the situations you describe.
I don't think it's unreasonable for you to want some of your own life. Your brother could help out more. Once your DM realises she won't get such instant responses if she needs to wait a few days for him to travel down to find her lost glasses etc she might reconsider some kind of outside help.
Anyway, I also just wanted to mention that there's an Elderly Parents section on mimsnet, in case you hadn't see it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/elderly_parents

Good luck working out what to do, it's a difficult situation.

The big part of the problem is proximity. Your DM doesnt realise the amount of 'care' she is receiving from you. She loses her glasses/keys, needs to be taken to an appointment etc etc etc then she toddles round to you and you sort it. You are right there so it isnt a problem for her.

If you werent literally on her doorstep she would have to resolve these problems herself or to accept help from someone else.

If you were to continue with your plans to experience life abroad (and having done this I would recommend this as a life experience) I would strongly recommend keeping a home here albeit let out.

You were talking about letting out your home but is there a huge risk that your DM through force of habit would be turning up on your tenants' doorstep expecting you to be there and to help?

Would a fist step be to sell your current house and buy something eminently suitable for renting out but a bit further away. In the short term move to that home. In this time you will be close enough to sort 'big' problems but far enough away to force the day to day care issue.

that would be a first step not fist step!