I'm clearly doing something very wrong (dating)

[MojoMoon]

Hello
I am 31 and have been single for nearly ten years.

Live in London, university, post grad, good job, career progression, lots of friends, my own little flat in the centre.
I think I must be reasonably nice and interesting as I have a decent number of talented, smart and fun friends. I've been on three holidays with different groups of pals this year, hen nights, festivals, weddings. I've even been asked to do a reading at two of them so I feel like I must be fairly valued.
I'm out three or four nights a week, seeing friends for dinner, drinks, gigs, theatre, pub etc plus volunteering once a week.
I go to the gym, take classes there. I take a language class for part of the year as well.
Travel a bit for work, work in fairly male dominated industry.
In short I am out and about and doing things.
But I can count on one hand (in fact on two fingers) the number of times I have been asked out in the last decade. I'm a feminist so I believe women can ask men out and have done so three times, to no avail.
Men just don't seem to are me in a romantic light at all.
I have no idea how to flirt and I think as time as passed I am more and more anxious about this and so probably veer completely the opposite way and while I'll chat to anyone and be nice and friendly, I am almost deliberately totally "buddy" like.
I am increasingly worried I have missed the boat somewhere in my twenties as almost everyone is now partnered up and the big house parties of my youth where you could meet people easily and I guess "practice" are in the past.
I've lost weight and sorted my skin out in last 18months so now look better although still pretty average size 12 etc. Spent some money on clothes and hair too and definitely look better and have has compliments from my mates.
I've tried asking my friends but I think they just think I am being fussy.
So what do I do? Have tried internet dating, still have a profile but have not enjoyed it much so don't spend huge amounts of time and energy on it. Have done speed dating, it was fine, conversations were fine but none of my ticked ones ticked me.
I guess I am fussy in that I don't fancy that many people but it's not like I have a specific list of things they must be, just that I need to really like them and that doesn't happen much.
Any advice wise women? I'd like to have a nice solid relationship and children but it seems like a distant possibility.
Sorry for long rant, is hard to talk about this in real life

Has anyone even actually seen a dating coach? Has anyone consciously learnt to flirt?

I had one session over skype and she told me to tweak a few things on my profile. I wasn't sure about what she advised. I talked about pushing myself, giving myself a target, say to meet two men a month and she said no because you can't control that, so make your target to message two men a week (eg) as that's in your control.

It wasn't that much use.
If you're on POF, can I have a look at your profile!?

No, not on PoF. Had done friends look at my profile and they were generally pretty positive. I do get messages (although 80pc from totally inappropriate people) and I do go on one to two dates a month but nothing seems to come of them, sometimes that is my choice though. I find the date itself pretty excruciating even though I still tend to be the one making the conversation and filling in the gaps.

If you do online dating you can set your age limits to stop older men messaging you, that's what I did.

From talking to men there are plenty of men who want to be with a woman of a similar age. Just ignore the ones who don't meet your criteria.

Yeh, it means you get fewer messages obviously but I prefer that. I hated looking at my inbox and there might be 15 messages and it was like a chore wading through them. You would read them all and it would be a collection of people you would never date. Too old, too young, living in Florida ..... I've suspended my account at the moment but I will reactivate it soon I suspect.

Just a few observations Mojomoon. I've got a daughter your age, well just slightly older shes very pretty, tall slim intelligent together well educated and all that . But single, seems she just cannot find a "decent bloke" as she terms it.

What's more she has a few friends in much the same shall we say category.

I cannot understand it either if i were younger I'd be chasing most all of them but it seems that there are sod all men doing that:(

They don't know why either sure they can find plenty of ONS "talent" and non committal. One or two of them have been on OLD but much the same as most anyone will tell you here one of two dates DTD and then no more they've it seems "scored" and end of.

One thing i might suggest is that do you have any particular hobbies or interests that might bring you near close to a possible Mr right or near as dammit Mr right?.

I'm mid sixties now divorced and now we're over that to the greater extent would be nice to have that special lady around but been on OLD which was not good for many reasons but one thing i love is classical music and there is a music appreciation society I'm joining i bet my miss right may well be there and as i see it worth a try perhaps for me at least maybe you something similar?.

Sorry not to be of any real help !

Was talking to colleague from another department today and we'd both recently been to the same gig (separately) so I thought I'd be brave and ask if he wanted to see a band next week I have tickets to. To which the response was "not sure, I'll have to listen to their second album first to see if I like it"

Mojo that's the response I would use to a friend/colleague. Possibly you came across as just a "friend" and the recipient probably already has his own friends. You need to sound like its a "date" you are asking for.

Hi OP,

So what happened with the two guys who asked you out? How many dates did you go on and who ended it? Also interested in your comment that 80% of guys contacting you on OLD were inappropriate, what were your knock out factors?

Definitely think the work gig encounter sounds like he thought you were asking him as a friend but also worth bearing in mind work and dating don't always mix even if your workplace doesn't have guidelines in place.

Finally, it doesn't sound like you enjoy going on dates - you make them sound like an ordeal akin to a job interview. Maybe wrongly I have the impression that you were not too bothered by not having a steady BF in your 20s, but now you are in your 30s you want to get married and have children so you are making yourself get out there, if that is the case then I'm sure the guy will pick up on it.

Ah much sympathy. Its horrible wondering why its not working and what you need to do to just be in dating zone. My sympathy. I online date and sometimes its pretty soul destroying, rude, randomly bad behaviour, hot and cold all that stuff.

I'm not in your age group - divorced after a 20 year relationship and dated quite a lot in my 9 years since - I've had some significant relationships. I did want to comment about the image and successfulness/strong woman points. Firstly, I've been between size 12 (sortof) to 16 - I've had dates and men have fallen for me in all my different sizes. I'm feminine in one sense, longish blonde hair, make up and heels, but not overly girly, dressy or low cut tops. I am funny and outgoing and strong and successful - high powered job and good salary.

So all I'm saying is I dont think its true all men run from strong women - it just sorts the wheat from the chaff. I'm like marmite - some guys run a mile some really like me (either reaction is normally quite strong).

A few tips:

• be confident - you are a good catch, you've got tons going for you, a man would be lucky to have you, know it,
• be light hearted and funny but maybe try a bit of flirty - whats to lose - you can just save face by saying to yourself you're just larking about,
• be a bit spontaneous, try something new and unexpected,
• live the life you want to lead - but offer up the tickets and opportunities as you did when you get the chance - why not? If you seem to do great things then a guy might want to join you,
• take an interest in men and work on the listening conversation (as an extrovert I'm always working on this) - admire achievements, ask about their interests, how their holiday was, what they love about their hobbies - prepared to be a little bored...
• maybe take up something quite male friendly - climbing, park run?
• finally on a shallow level - if it would give you confidence - go for a makeup lesson and an expensive hair salon. nails, not to get the guys but to feel amazing. None of this is necessary to get a man but its about feeling good.

Good luck.

One guy I went on two or three dates with, wasn't really any spark for either of us and we are still friends now. The other guy was very, very odd (had spent some time earlier in the party telling me has never had an impressive female colleague) so I made up an imaginary boyfriend and declined.
In terms of 80pc of online dating approaches being inappropriate, I mean either ages (20 years older or 10 years younger) or not in the country, or barely speaking English or who just send something like "hi babe, u r hot" or something even more crude. Admittedly that is on okcupid which is free so lots of dross. But even when I've paid for guardian soulmates, its been high levels of entirely inappropriate guys age wise.

And yes, I dont enjoy dates very often. I have done a few times of course but often the whole format seems a bit weird and unnatural. I should work on that though.

Are most of your friends married? It can be hard to meet single guys when you are surrounded by couples.

Internet dating really isn't for everyone! I never liked it personally. Most relationships I know of started by meeting in the pub! (Not clubs!)

If you have a nice friendly local maybe pop down there and get chatting to people if you can find someone to come along!

Wow, I thought you would come back with a list including not earning a good enough salary, limited career progression, not a home owner, not good looking enough etc. but the things you list sound v basic. Think Mummydummy's tips sound spot on. Also, do you tend to always be in a group situation with your friends? If so it might be an idea to go to some events on your own - I am much older than you and married but I often get into conversations with single / divorced / widowed men if I go to events alone. Obviously I'm not in the market, but if I were it would be pretty easy to be invited to similar events, coffee, a drink, dinner etc.

Must say your post makes me glad I have instilled what I thought was basic dating manners in DS when he was a teen - good manners, honesty, making sure date will get home safely, planning enjoyable events, thoughtful gifts and joint responsibility for contraception. Hearing your experience of OLD makes me realise these things may not be so basic after all!