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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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My brother's toxic wife

58 replies

Halle71 · 08/08/2016 17:33

Apologies if this is long. I'm not sure if there are any comments that can even help, but I'm hoping just writing it down might give me some perspective.

Six years ago, my brother married a woman he had met online 6 months previously and this started the collapse of our 'normal' family - 3 late 30s 'kids' (haha) and mid 60s parents.

It would take me too long to describe how manipulative and vicious she is, but my other brother (v senior police officer) and a friend who is a psychiatric nurse are convinced she has a personality disorder, probably narcissism. I was sceptical - too much tv so I thought they were psycho killers - but googled it and, hey presto, Wikopedia have nailed her.

From the beginning I disliked her but I remained polite for my brother's sake. We all did. He is quite vulnerable - very intelligent but he was the class geek and terribly bullied at school and in a later job. If he was happy, so were we.
She was rude to me and my dp and rude to my parents. Actually, she flipped between being rude and breaking down in front of us about the people who had failed her (the feud with the sister she had not spoken to for years, the exh who stole all her money...), her many illnesses (there is an infamous incident where she spoke for over an hour about an intimate feminine issue in front of my 70 year old father).
She tried to force an intense friendship on me - in her eyes we would be in SIL heaven - but snubbed me completely when I wouldn't play ball. There was never any middle ground and she told me about friendships that had gone the same way, but obviously they were at fault.

And the lies. The house she owned that her parents looked shocked about when my parents mentioned it (it was supposedly abroad and they were taking care of it).
What we now believe to be a fake miscarriage 4 months after they met. Three years after they married, I found out about an ex husband my brother hadn't been told about. I can't even write the explanation she gave for the secret husband - it's an accusation of a serious crime, but one my DCI brother thinks is bollocks. These are big lies, but it was constant.

Things came to a head 3.5 years ago when she pretty much put a line in the sand by refusing to come on a family holiday she had previously accepted, for the most stupid reasons and then refusing all communication. My dad has a terrible illness - think bastard child of Parkinson's and Motor Neurone - and doesn't have long to live, at least not of any quality, and this holiday was his last family holiday. Because of this we begged, bribed then threatened and used emotional blackmail to try and make them come but got nothing in response. What we didn't realise at the time is that she was on his FB, email, phone so any communication to him was intercepted by her.

So I haven't seen my brother for 3.5 years, my mum has seen him once because they wanted money to move house, my dad has seen them a few times for the same reason. My other brother saw them for a while and haven't fallen out, but have lost favour - they were flavour of the month but soon dropped when they refused to take 'their side'. We've basically lost him. People outside the family have also witnessed stuff and believe their relationship is toxic. He no longer sees any of his friends and she doesn't really have friends, just business acquaintances. His life seems very limited. One best friend commented that he doesn't believe FB is a 'secure' method of communication!

My dad is devastated. I can't imagine contemplating dying while estranged from the son you were close to until he was 37. My mum is devastated, she says for my dad, but she carried him for 9 months, breastfed him, raised him while my dad worked, loved him........ But she also hates him for what he has done. I mostly hate both him and his wife. But I miss the brother I was reasonably close to, the kindest of three siblings, who would give you his last pound and travel the breadth of the country to do you a favour. And I can't help but think of my 3yo ds. How would I feel if he did this to us? I don't think I would ever be able to forgive my brother if my dad dies without making up but I also don't think making up is possible now. It feels like a pain I would hold forever. Once he is gone there is no going back.

There seems to be no solution but, as PO brother pointed out 'what if he was our sister?' There is a new law that deals with non violent domestic violence 'coercion and control' and he believes this applies. But he needs to want to go. The one time he has seen my mum in 3 years ended up with the wife storming out, and my brother who was in tears, replying 'you don't know what she's like' when my mum told him he didn't need to follow. Two days later he sent an email accusing my parents if physically and verbally abusing his wife! My 6' dad weighs 55kg and my 72 year old mum is post hip replacement. She is twisted. She literally reinvents history.

OP posts:
sailawaywithme · 09/08/2016 01:15

I have no advice but could have written your post myself. I fear our family is permanently fractured, and I'm watching this thread with interest to see if there is any helpful advice.

5BlueHydrangea · 09/08/2016 01:52

My dh had his previous marriage annulled. It was a church process. Very long, drawn out and painful. However he is also divorced from her so was free to marry again both legally and in the eyes of the church.

I suspect she is talking rubbish there....
Very difficult situation.

user1470296258 · 09/08/2016 01:53

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Scarydinosaurs · 09/08/2016 04:02

Religiously annulled comes after divorce- you cannot legally annul unless the marriage hasn't been consummated or was entered into fraudulently. All very specific.

I would 100% explore this route.

I'm so sorry for your troubles. It must be awful.

Halle71 · 09/08/2016 09:21

Does anyone know how to find divorce records if I don't know the date of the divorce?
I only found their marriage records.

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springydaffs · 09/08/2016 09:52

I recommend you (and your parents) have a look at Joshua Coleman. He deals with estrangement from adult children. His techniques seem counter-intuitive - but they work! I can't recommend him highly enough.

eg you go in with something along the lines of 'I'm sorry I/we have hurt/offended you'. This seems to take the biscuit! But it WORKS. You have to bear in mind that her behaviour is devoid of all morals and nonsensical - but your brother is in her grip. We like to think we need to hold a moral standard but in situations like this we can't - we have to do what works.

springydaffs · 09/08/2016 09:54

Joshua Coleman

springydaffs · 09/08/2016 10:14

This is a good one - and free!

springydaffs · 09/08/2016 10:19

His book

Sorry to go on about it but what this man has to say is powerful.

Halle71 · 09/08/2016 10:58

Thanks so much springy.
Very useful reading and I will pass on to my, frankly bewildered, parents.

And thanks for everyone's supportive messages. I thought that without the whole story (what I have written is the tip of the iceberg), people might think I was being vindictive.

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Littlepeople12345 · 09/08/2016 12:36

There's really nothing you can do to make him listen to you but I would find out everything I could about her and her past and have it all printed out.

Could you try to book him for some work? You said he is freelance? It's the only way to get him to meet you without her. Does she work?

Fuck I'd go the whole hog and hire a PI and have her followed and go and see him whilst she is out.

I would do everything I could to help your brother. Your poor mum and dad.

Halle71 · 09/08/2016 12:49

My dad has offered to hire a PI so I think I'm going to see if I can arrange it.

There is also a lot of financial irregularity with her business that the PI could also look into, including selling her business, resigning as a director and becoming a director again like a yo-yo. Literally 5 times. In one instance to commit mortgage fraud - as she happily told PO brother.
I think HMRC would also be interested - she deals in large cash sums, yet her business appears to be worth jack shit.....
She also has 6, now defunct, businesses listed (obviously she couldn't work in an environment with other human beings present!!)

You can tell I've had sleepless nights plotting and googling!!

Unfortunately he is very specialist - flying instructor (who gave up being a pilot because she didn't like him travelling)

OP posts:
wherearemymarbles · 09/08/2016 13:07

If he is an instructor book a lesson with him under a different name. Then you know you can see him without her there.

But on the basis he will be earning way way less bow she must have him totally trapped.

I dont think you can make him see sense otherwise he would have left ages ago.

ForalltheSaints · 09/08/2016 19:04

Reading this I am pleased that we have gun control in this country. If we were in the US I am sure this is a woman who someone would have shot at a long time ago.

Hope the investigation uncovers something that can bring an end to this awful situation, for the sake of your dad.

Cary2012 · 09/08/2016 19:11

Can't your PO brother do a bit of groundwork here? Or at least have the contacts to do so? Even if you uncover loads of evidence, don't assume that your brother will see the light. If she's done a real number on him, he could alienate himself from his family even further. just saying...

LuluJakey1 · 09/08/2016 19:17

Will any of this help you have a relationship with your brother? It seems like he has had many opportunities and evidence provided to him that would make most people end a relationship but he chooses her before any of you. She sounds extremely deceitful, emotionally abusive and controlling but I just wonder if anything would get through to your brother or if you might end up disenfranchising him even more.

Halle71 · 10/08/2016 00:31

Thanks Sandy. I found her marriage record in 1999 on there but no divorce. I need to check how far the records go up to when I can get onto my laptop - phone is rubbish for detective work. If the divorce happened is should have been quite soon afterwards because she then moved to the US and was married there by about 2004.

Interestingly I found 2 census records for her and in one of them her name was her as I searched for, but in the other her first name and middle name were swapped. Maybe nothing but odd and another thing to search under. She was born abroad and has a v unusual, foreign name which makes things easier.

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MyLlamasGoneBananas · 10/08/2016 00:58

She sounds utterly terrifyingly unhinged.
I'd be like a dog with a bone with this.
Keep digging. Perhaps if necessary employ an expert to find out absolutely everything possible about her.
I strongly suspect from what I've read that your brother isn't even getting to see emails,messages and texts. I suspect she has full control of his fb,emails etc and I bet he doesn't even get a look in and if he does, its only after she has either deleted or responded how she sees fit (maybe even impersonating your brother).

Halle71 · 10/08/2016 08:36

She really is properly scary. It was a lightbulb moment when I read about narcissism - explained everything. If I had known about it 6 years ago I might have been in a position to warn him.
The very first time I met her, they came to lunch at our house and, within an hour of meeting, we had had her life story from her premature birth when her mother left her at the hospital to die (she still bears a grudge and uses this story to explain her 2 dates of birth - you couldn't make it up...) to the latest ex husband in the US who ran away with all her money and her sister who dumped her on a hard shoulder in Florida and they haven't spoken since. There were tears and tantrums and my brother just stroked her arm and said 'there there'.
There was the prawn allergy that meant we had to nip out and get her a curry - I have seen her eat prawns since.
And this was just the first time we met.

The third time she asked me to be her maid of honour and when I refused (kindly explained it was a role for sister or BFF and I was up to my eyeballs with my first baby) but said I would love to be a bridesmaid she snubbed me and asked other people. I clearly didn't give a shit, and later these women got sacked from the role for not all agreeing to horrid dresses. Which brings me to the supposed miscarriage she was having in Debenhams when she dragged my poor mother shopping. My mum hates shopping but we tried for a long time to be supportive.

I tried to contact her sister a couple of years ago to see if there was anything she could advise. Somehow SIL found out and threatened me via my parents. As she is not speaking to her sister (to the extent she didn't come over for her fathers funeral last year because SIL would be there), this prob happened vis her mum.
SIL's US exh and her sister's current husband are famous within their field and work together - I have found articles that mention both SIL and her sister as completely possessive, manipulative nutters. So we are not the only recipients!

I might write a book about it one way. Sleeping with the Enemy has nothing on this!

OP posts:
springydaffs · 10/08/2016 10:12

You tried to contact her sister for advice? Advice? That would be seen as a betrayal - which it is. You knew full well the nature of their relationship.

If she does indeed have a great deal of control over your brother it's not going to help him if you try to outfox her. I was married to a narc (proper narc) and you are a fool to lock horns: they win, always, and destroy you in the process. The only way with a narc is to go in compliant.

Halle71 · 10/08/2016 12:57

Well, she can't destroy me. And she's already destroyed the person my brother used to be. But I get your point.
And yes, not my finest decision. Although all I did was a FB friend request and a one liner explaining who I was. I suspect she thought I might be trying to get them back together but she hates my SIL so much she wanted to nip it in the bud.
Finding the secret marriage was the nail in my coffin with her. I now know that when threatened, the narcissist declares war. But again, by this stage any chance of getting through to her was pretty much nil.

We did the charm thing as soon as she pulled out of the holiday - we agreed to all her silly requests in a lovely way. Then we begged and pleaded. But she did not respond from there on. Not from her accounts anyway. She didn't want us to back down, she wanted an excuse not to go on the hol.

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Gatekeeper · 10/08/2016 13:09

my sympathies- one of my relatives is living with a woman just like this and has successfully alienated him from his family. I haven't spoken to him or her for nearly five years and he's turned his back on his children and grandchildren Sad

Halle71 · 10/08/2016 13:56

If we genuinely thought he was happy it wouldn't be so bad. We'd be sad but could live with his decision and tbh, a life without her in it would be a relief!
But he can't be, not really. He literally has no friends. Flying was his passion and he no longer does it. And he has no relationship with the siblings he always went out of his way to visit while we were preoccupied with having babies and working while he was training and had more time. He adored my DD, and we all used to joke how my now 13 year old nephew was his kid because they were so alike and had so much in common.

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