Any relationship counsellors about?

[Mollymollymandy123]

Last night Dh &I had our 1st session. I've wanted to try it for 2 years, before, during & after his affair (both emotional & sexual) with a work colleague. He was reluctant to go so I've been doing some research & reading on affairs. At first I thought he was a narcissist (ticks all boxes) them more worryingly I wondered if he was also a sociopath (again ticks all boxes), psychopath? (Ticks a couple of boxes but not all).
Today I feel deflated. I had such hopes counselling might help but I'm wondering if it will. I was asked by the counsellor if I could think of anything I could do for him, something nice? She suggested baking him a cake. My baking cupboard is always stocked. Ours was one of those cases where there was nothing wrong before his affair. I think (& he agrees) he did it because he is selfish & has an enormous sense of entitlement, cannot foretell consequences, is able to look me in the eye & lie. It tried to explain this but she didn't seem to 'get it'. I was then asked if prior to his affair was I perhaps very busy, I more or less told her no he was not neglected in any way. He admits he loves having his ego stroked & that's basically why it happened, it wasn't my fault.
Anyway- do you think counselling is perhaps not for us as we both agree the reasons were to do with his personality ? Would he be better seeking help with his narcissism? I'm not prepared to pay someone every week for what could go on for months & months if we cannot find 'change' for his traits. Advice please!

Sorry, OP, maybe I was too dismissive.

I think all three of you should read this this
you- to help you calibrate your self worth, and figure out what you need to make your relationship workable
Him- to focus his efforts, if they are genuine, on meaningful healing
Her- to get an education

I'd be wary of the counselling you're describing and I'd be searching for a counsellor more in tune with the ethos in the above link.

You know some counsellors do sessions via Skype these days? Your location doesn't have to be an issue to get IC - for both of you.

Amy. I bought him that book in the days after the affair was exposed, he look at all the words & sentences but did not read it nor retain any information, he was still in 'phsychotic episode' frame of mind. If he really reads it now I think it will make more of an impact.
Re video conference/ Skipe / I will bear that in mind but I'll give this another chance & will see if any progress is made first.

Relate, you say ?

That figures.

I suggest you both think about what you actually want from these counselling sessions. What would be your ideal outcome? If it's for him to change I don't think it's going to cut it.

My ideal outcome would be to restore my self esteem/ confidence, to move past anger, to feel absolutely nothing when I see ow instead of legs turning to jelly & to accept what has happened. And to know how to deal with his family trying to justify his behaviour. For dh it's to understand why he did it, to basically learn how to police/parent himself & understand we do not treat people in this manner & also how to deal with his 'fan club' family.
Individual counselling may be our best bet.
Thanks all.

Yet another idiot Relate "counsellor". There is a fairly recent thread somewhere on MN sharing Relate experiences. Often harmful, concerned with keeping the marriage at all costs.

I wouldn't waste your time and money on a counsellor whose first suggestions are that perhaps you were too busy for him and perhaps you should bake a cake. Had you time slipped back to the fifties, do you think?

My ex would have found those very affirming suggestions to his narc self.

Individual counselling. For you too.

Suggest you seek individual counselling from someone BACP qualified and discuss why you still wish to be in a relationship with this dreadful man.

You want to bake him a cake?! FFS

Couples counselling when one of the partners is abusive is not recommended, because the abuser will often charm the counsellor and switch the focus of the sessions onto the victim, who is then told she is at fault and has to change. If you google around a bit for advice on this, you'll find plenty of articles which explain the dynamics.

I'm not saying that your husband is abusive, but the account you give of your counselling session sounds very similar to the accounts I've read in various articles about this.

If I were you I'd stick to counselling for yourself, and leave him to it. Work out what you want and how you want it to happen, and don't bake him anything. Cake. FFS.

Rise that's very helpful advice, as I said I sent him in alone initially with the intention of him "getting to the bottom of it". I completely see what you suggest about an abuser charming the counsellor & I know that's exactly what would have happened even up until fairly recently. He did have the ability to charm people but he does see this himself now. I would like my marriage to continue if there is never a repeat of his dreadful behaviour- as I said we always got on fine until his 'episode'. His narcisstic tendencies were mearly foibles previously but during the affair he was abusive , silent treatment etc. Please don't think I am a pushover I probably was. Not now.He has been told to get help or that's it, I will not be treated poorly by him again. Hopefully we will eventually find the right person to help. Thanks

In this situation, casting around for an outside influence to tell your husband to behave like a decent human being is probably an exercise in futility

The single best thing you could do is decide where your boundaries are (with individual professional help if necessary) and if he steps over them again (or you come to the conclusion he already has) have the strength and courage to make a clean break

It dawned on me that in oder to keep some kind of balance she had to question you. If dh felt he was being attacked full on from the get go he might have ran. So to keep him engaged he needed to hear that the counsellor had an open mind as to where the difficulties lay. Just because she asked them questions doesn't mean she hasn't a clue. Your dh will have let down his guard a bit when he saw you were being challenged so then he might be more prepared to be open.
This may be nonsense as l have no experience but l could see that if he felt totally under fire he would have nothing to do with it.
But do challenge the counsellor and remember if he is a charmer he will attempt to charm her too.

So essentially you want him to be someone different.

You need to see an individual counsellor because the problem isn't 'Why can't he see how his outrageous behaviour effects me?' but 'Why do I put with his it'? This is who he is and your desperate attempt to illicit an ipithany via Relate, will only crush what little self respect you have left.

Delegating the responsibility of bolstering your self esteem to someone who can not see past their own wants is not just futile but it's irresponsible. It's time to stop distracting yourself from the problem that you can fix, which is 'Why have you so little respect for yourself'?

Thanks to you all for taking time to reply, I'm reading & re-reading all post & considering.
Isetan, I want him to be someone different from the person he was during his affair yes. I am seeing changes, he accepts what he did was horrendous & bizarre. Prior to his 'Royal fuck up' we got on fine. Yes I recognise my self esteem has been shattered & I will seek help with it. Af- I understand your advice regarding boundaries & absolutely agree. Thanks

There's a book called 'how to help your spouse heal from your affair' by Linda Macdonald . He should read it.

I also suggest he looks at and considers joining the support group below and he can get support from other WSs.

Also by reading the JFO/Reconciliation forum, he'll get an idea of the pain a BS suffers following infidelity.

www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?fid=13

I'm interested in when & why the affair ended. Was it because you found out? If it was and you hadn't discovered it, would his "psychotic episode" have continued?

You also mention that you want help with "closure", why?? Your husband had an affair and betrayed you, you will never get closure, however in some cases couples can move past the affair and re-build their relationship, but only with a lot of work from the person who had an affair to re-build trust. This is not a case of he's ended it, said he's sorry and now you need to get over it - it just doesn't work like that!

I also agree with previous posters, the counsellor sounds shit! My stbxh had an affair, I accepted some responsibility for him feeling neglected beforehand because I wanted our marriage to work - but it was all bullshit, I have no understanding of why he had an affair and now I have no interest in why. I am embarrassed of how I behaved immediately afterwards, what a stupid cow I was to actually believe I was somehow to blame.

Please don't give him permission to act as though he was "not himself" while this was going on, of course he was!

Sandy, thanks will look into it.
Jelly, the physical affair ended about 10 weeks prior to me getting the firm proof I needed , they texted back & forth on friendly terms for a couple of weeks then communication stopped. He ended it. When I say closure I mean I want to move on from it , to get to a place where it doesn't dominate our thoughts & to rebuild. I do not accept any responsibility & never have done, the marriage was fine & certainly not nearly over or anything like all the excuses you hear used by unfaithful men. He had no reason to do what he did, other than satisfy his own selfishness.
I know we won't return to our pre affair state, obviously things would be very different. I absolutely hate the phrase " you need to get over it!" Because I've repeatedly heard it from his mother! I will keep a close eye on what angle the counselling takes next session but if it's not what we need I will voice my concerns.

Well, you can fuck your counsellor off for a start.

Baking cakes? What absolute fucking nonsense. She sounds utterly unprepared and unsuited to her job.

There is an argument in certain psychotherapeutic circles that couples counselling is completely unnecessary, and that both people should be in individual counselling. I would tend to agree.

However.

If your husband is going to counselling purely because you want him to and have asked him to, then it won't work. Particularly if he's the "golden boy" you say he is. When narcissistic traits are strong, it tends to take a rock-bottom experience to bring them into therapy with a willingness for insight. And even then, dealing with high levels of narcissism can be futile.

AnyFucker has it right, imo - this is about your boundaries; what you want; and the line you draw past which you cannot go.

I'm an ex relatecounsellor and while I hope your counsellor is up to the mark and I'm not suggesting she isn't I would have expected your first session to have focused on teasing out the problems. Exploring them. Trying to get a deeper awareness of the effects certain behaviours have on you.

When two people go to counselling you have the marriage in front of you.if he is genuinely contrite over what hedid then he oughttobe motivated to make changes so that it doesn't happen again and to repair the damage he's done.

If he feels he's been neglected then he needs to explore what it is he feels is lacking. This is where he might need to look at his family background, upbringing etc. what he got/ didn't get as a child is probably not appropriate as an adult and certainly inviting someone else into your relationship is not the way to build a solid, firm. Arrange that will withstand everything life chucks at it.

Once he's figured that out then he needs to discuss with you where changes are to be made and I certainly don't think you should be made to feel you need to jump through hoops to keep him on a level course.

As an adult he needs to take responsibility for his own happiness. We can't be everything to everybody even if we wanted to. We have to trust that they will communicate with us and see if we can work on a strategy that is best for both.

I'm seeing a counsellor at the moment as I realised I need to work on my anxiety. I couldn't expect my DH to keep picking up the pieces . It wasn't fair on him. I certainly wasn't going to look outside my marriage for another person ' to make me feel better' . It's only transient anyway.

On outr third session we did some transactional analysis work. I was quite shocked when I saw how both our behaviours resulted in a very difficult situation ie an uncomfortable transaction ie him the critical parent and me the adaptive child.

I explained it to him and he could see where he hadn't been helpful and I had gone into knee jerk reaction.

Very interesting.

If cake is the new panacea to all that ails in our relationship . Let it be a celebration one for when we finally understand how the other one ticks.

Arrange=marriage