I need LOADS of help and advice with this one please!!!

[zephyrcat]

This is going to be long but I need to explain the whole story. Hopefully you can bear with me!

When I met DP he lived with his gf and their Son, who was 2. We started seeing each other (wrong, I know, but true) Someone told her and she left. When dp was clearing her stuff out he found lots of letters and diaries and it came to light that she never ever had any intention of staying with him. She had had several affairs, and wrote about him like he was a piece of dirt on her shoe, and all about her plan to get her and 'her son' (not theirs) back to her Mum and Dad's house and leave dp. He even found a printout from the hospital from when she'd had 'her' ds stating that she had genital warts...something she had obviously caught from one of her affairs.
When I started living with dp, we used to collect the son from nursery and he satyed over once a week. While dp was working I looked after him.

When dp and I had our dd1, she started to tell her son not to go with Daddy, or to promise him things if he didn't go, so dp would drive all the way to pick him up and then son would refuse to go with him. Obviously this really upset dp who would then come home angry and upset and we would fight.

It got to the point where we agreed that he wouldn't see the son until he was old enough to make his own decision, for everyone's benefit.

The ex has in the past 7 years totally turned dp's family against us. We took dd1 to his parents house when she was about 18months and his Father sat in the same room and refused to even look at her . His Mum has since seen the children maybe once since, when ds was about 4 months old - he's now 2.7.

DP fell out with his Dad over the way he treated dd1 and they stopped speaking. 2 years ago he was killed in an accident. DP had to sit in the back of the funeral car on his own whilst his Mum, Sister and ex went together. He was also very left out of things at the funeral.

We have tried and tried to see his Mum but she always makes excuses not to.

DP went to see his son a couple of years ago again and it all ended in stress, manipulation by ex and nasty calls texts etc so now doesn't see him again.

Our dd1 is 5 now, and she doesn't know about dp's son. I got in contact with his Sister a few days ago to try and sort things out and for her and his Mum to come and see our children. She spoke to Mum and said they would like that, but we need to consider the Son. Fair enough. It now transpires that it's a case of we won't see your children until you see the son.

I don't know what to do. I want our 3 children to know their Auntie and Grandma.
I worry about getting involved with the ex and son again because she is a nasty piece of work and I will not put my children into a situation that can be manipulated by her.

What do you think? Do I go ahead and bite the bullet or do we wait until our children our old enough to understand the situation - but that means they miss out on an Auntie and Grandma (not that they care or they would agree to see the kids no matter what, surely?)

Arrgghh!!!!!!!!!! Help!!

You are right, if they wanted to see your dsd, they would, end of story, so I'm not sure about this condition. I won't give you all the details but I basically have never known my mum's parents as they just were not interested in me and my brother (despite us being their only grandchildren). I wonder about it sometimes but what I have never had, I don't miss. The whole situation can be romanticised, but as I see it, people are just basically are not very nice, are not going to suddenly become great people because they have the title of "aunt" or "grandad" or whatever.

Dp also has a dd by another relationship. She lives in Australia (another complicated one!). We will just tell ds that he has a sister but that she lives somewhere else. Whatever is the truth will just feel normal as long as the adults don't make it too difficult or fraught.

Anyway, don't know if any of that is helpful. I hope you can work something out. Dh also has another dd by another (!) relationship so I know life is not always simple!

Thanks beansprout - it's nice to hear something along my lines of thinking! I feel gui;ty for dd because she constantly asks about dp's Mum. I also feel bad for dp not seeing his son, but I am so protective of our children that I am torn. MY family was crap when I was little and I hated the thought of my Mum and Dad ever having 'another family'. I just want our children not to have to deal with that until they are capable of understanding - is that just selfish though?

Perhaps you could get MIL to bring the ds with her. If she is on good terms with the ex surely she would be happy to do that.

From your point of you I assume you are happy to have the ds around etc you just don't want the grief from the ex? This way it would be very difficult for the ex to make things horrid for your dp without your MIL knowing all about it and seeing her for what she really is?

You could even tell auntie grandma that it would be so lovely if they would help the situation by bringing the ds with them etc how you are both so sad that you haven't been able to see much of him etc etc etc Is this worth I try. You musn't complain about the ex as you want to get them on side IYSWIM

If i am honest i think that its wrong of you too look at your partners relationship differently than the one he has with your children. He is his son just as much as your children are.

I have no idea how he can stay away form his child but i think if he has seen him on;y once in 7 years it would be better for his son if he just left him alone.

From your post it seems as if your concerns are for you and your children which is understandable but i think you need to think about the impact your actions are having on his son.

You say about his ex being a bitch but i can imagine finding out your partner is having an affair is quite traumatic and would make anyone bitter, i can see you found some evedence of affairs on her part but you seem very resentfull of this woman despite her behaving no differently than your partner.

i think that you your partner and his ex need to sit down away from the children and decide what is best for his children...ALL OF THEM

Sounds like a really difficult situation, you have my sympathies

Going off what you've said, I'd say it would be better for you and your family to not be involved with such vindictive people. You don't need them in your lives, they would probably create more problems than good.

I know it must be hard for you to think they don't care about your children (how can grandparents have an attitude like that towards little ones?), but they haven't shown one ounce of love for them so far, and I don't think I'd want my children to be involved with family members like that.

How is your dp feeling now?

This is what I'm thinking Buffy... thast would be the way around it. It's just the manipulation. I mean, why sshouldn't dp be able to talk to his own mother and sister about the nasty things she has done to get them onside??

I don't mean that to be arsey to your post - just that it frustrates me how she has manipuolated them agains their own Son/brother and it's him who has to tiptoe around!

I don't think so, it is entirely ok for you to want to protect your children. I would say that it is worth bearing in mind that you don't all come as a package and that it might be an idea for dp to establish a relationship first. The relationship his ds has with your dd will hinge partly on how secure he feels with his dad, and how jealous he is of dd. My 2 dsds who have different mums, have a very difficult relationship as one lived with her dad and the other didn't. Relationships between people who are linked by another person (e.g. me and my dsd are link by her dad) often depend on how secure they both feel in their relationship with the "link" person. If dsd sees me as a thread (or even vice versa) that is as much to do with how loved she feels by her dad as anything I am doing.

Anyway, I am waffling now, sorry. Hope you are ok, and please keep talking about this, there really are no easy answers!

DP can't see it the way I do. He would see his son and not think anything of it. But it's not him who has to sit with dd in her room at night asking so many questions.

It sounds to me like your a really warm and caring family and your children dont need any more than that. Why subject your children to their nan and aunt who obviously have their priorities all wrong? Just be honest with our children and as they get older you can tell them more, just dont run anyone down.

I do think that for his son's sake though, it would be a good idea if his dad made the effort to start seeing him on a regular basis - can you come to some arrangement (as amicably as you can with his x!) for him to visit you every weekend/other weekend? That way he can get to know his half-siblings and vice-versa, and it won't mess his head up when he's older thinking his dad didn't want to know him...

It won't be easy, but it sounds like an issue that really needs addressing...

I think you do need to sit down with your dp and decide what you think is best for all 4 children. If you can both commit to trying to build a relationship with the ds and you are prepared to manage the situation via auntie/mil then I think it can bring some good out of it.

Perhaps you have to realise that you are both going to have to prove that you are not what you've been made out to be. You can only do this if you can stay calm & rise above all that goes on. It is sad that auntie/mil have been taken in but they have been and that is what you're fighting against.

Think thru it long and hard as I think it will be a rocky ride but if your dp would like a relationship with his ds then it is worth it.

mamazon I see what you are saying but the things I have written here about the things she has done to dp are only the tip of the iceberg. Finding out about him and me were her perfect excuse to leave him. She had been planning it for months and months. She didn't care about him and me.

She has had more impact on her sons life than I ever could. She demanded that he go on medication for ADHD because he was being disruptive and expelled from nursery. I told dp that he didn't have ADHD, he was being disruptive because she was playing mind games with him, stopping him seeing his Dad. Sure enough she was told that he didn't have ADHD. She would make him go to school in a red jumper when the girls wore red, the boys blue.

When I say she is a nasty piece of work I don't mean it lightly.

I am worried that I tell dd1 about her half brother, start to build a relatioship between them maybe, and then she starts her crap again and we are left picking up the pieces with dd.

At the end of the day honesty is best with your dd if they build a relationship and the ex spoils/stops it etc then yes your dd may be sad etc but that's ok in that life is hard and sad but so long as you are open honest loving with her and talk to her about it then it's not a secret and you've done the right thing and if the ds wants a relationship in the future then you've set foundations there.

Life is sad and painful and not doing stuff to protect little ones in the short term just may be storing up bigger c* for the future.

This is a very fraught situation and I think often the most damaging thing for kids is irregular comings and goings of family members who appear to love and care for them but then disappear without warning for months or years at a time.

This could apply to all kids involved here!

If your dp is serious about wanting to maintain regular and dedicated contact with his first son, he should take legal advice and do it that way. His ex is clearly not in the mood for cooperating and probably never will be.

Auntie and Grandma sound difficult. Personally I think it's wrong that they are putting conditions on seeing their other grandchildren, but to give them the benefit of the doubt, they could believe that your dp's first son is very much suffering through lack of a father, and are trying to get him involved again in any way they can. However I don't think that any family member is an imperative in a child's life, as long as they are loved and cared for by others. My ds has virtually no grandparents (3 dead, 1 very far away) but I don't think he suffers from that, he has enough family and friends who adore him to be getting on with!

As the 'second wife' things will always be harder for you! You deserve huge praise for your efforts in resolving this, a lot of women would have said 'sod it' a long time ago (and not without good reason!)

I speak from experience when I say that a 'disappearing father' can have serious emotional impact on the child, maybe especially a son (though I don't want to generalise). Recently my half-brother got in touch out of the blue, he's 18 now and I hadn't seen him since he was 10. His mum and my dad split acrimoniously and she barred contact with no explanation to anyone; all my brother recalls of it is leaning out of a window screaming at his daddy not to leave, but his daddy leaving anyway, and then never coming back. Apparently he's had eight years of quite serious emotional problems as a result. I think your dp should make every effort to be a father to his son, but to do it with legal weight behind him, to persevere, and most importantly to commit to it no matter what nastiness his ex throws back at him. His son will learn the truth one day, but if your dp gets 're-involved' now and then the situation repeats, and he 'disappears' again when son is 10, 12, 15, he risks just exacerbating the damage.

I've never done it but I've heard mediation is really good; you could ask about 3-way mediation with dp's ex, or family/group mediation. Ask your health visitor about this. If you want to throw the ex a bone you could suggest she goes first in making a list of her preferred conditions and rules with regards to an access arrangement, it might sweeten her up if you act deferential (not nice I know but anything to smooth things, sometimes). And see a lawyer: know your rights re. access.

Good luck

Thanks tamz77 - I think part of my guild for the ds and wanting to protect my own comes from my childhood crap with my Dad too.

We have tried everything with the ex. Offered mediation, spoken to solicitors and had letters sent to her regarding contact and she just ignores them. We can't afford to pay for a solicitor to follow it up.

If we get involved with dp's son it will have to be purely through his Mum and Sister. She will have no part in our lives whatsoever.

She isn't interested in any sort of resolve, she has got exactly what she wanted. Everything done for her by dp's family, financially, support, babysitting at the click of her fingers - and all we want is for our children to know their family.

Buffysmum you are so right. If I don't tell dd now, I will have to tell her one day and if I leave it too long she will probably resent not being told.

Tell dd what you can in an age-appropriate way ie that sometimes grown ups do silly things when they are upset (please try not to denigrate anyone to your dd, it only makes things worse).
Also, your DP should try to maintain a relationship with his DS on whatever terms he can: if the boy's mother is the vindictive basket-case you imply then the DS is going to need his dad as a refuge at some point. If it weren't for the DS you might be better off letting the MIL. SIL etc go stuff themselves but as it is you need to try and keep some sort of communication going.
Good luck. It sounds a right old mess.

Oh I don't know what I've done. DP came home from work and asked me if I'd given any thought to the meeting.

I told him that if we go ahead and meet up then it is to be strictly only through his Mum and Sister - nothing to do with his ex whatsoever as it is her that does the manipulating and she wouldn't be able to through his Mum and Sister.

Deep down I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, but on the other hand, dp has been without family for so long now and I know he wants it desperately. I hope dd takes it well...

Thank you all so much for your thoughts, it really helped to get a balanced view. I posted once a long time ago when this all started and got shot down for dp not seeing his ds.

I need help again!

I had alittle chat with dd this morning - quite lighthearted, nothing too ott but enough to explain the situation and the possibility of a half-brother. I used me and my Sister as the example as we have different Dads. She was fine talking about his Mum and Sister and was quite interested, asked their names etc but if I mentioned him she changed the subject and when I said would you like to see dp's mum and sister she was up for it and when I said what about XXX she said no.

I left it at that and haven't mentioned it again and am not going to just yet.

I was wondering if it would be a good idea to arrange a meeting with them somewhere neutral but somewhere that the kids could go off and play together as a way of breaking the ice and them making friends... or is it best to just back off until dd is older?

my dh's dad has another son from a previous relationship . so dh has a brother who he doesnt know, supposedly because the first wife made things so difficult. i actually think it had more to do with wife no.2 (dh's mum) discouraging contact with his son from his first marriage.

now that dh is a dad himself his view is that his own dad didnt try hard enough, and he finds it v hard to accept that turned his back on his other son.

i think your dp should put it right now. your dd may not be comfortable with it atm, but thats no excuse to not do the responsible thing.