Does anybody NOT get very tense when their mum is visiting?

[Spidermama]

I get really wound up no matter how hard I try not to. It's almost like a visceral response. My mum has just gone after a four day visit and the relief is immense.

Is it normal to find ones own mum so irritating and upsetting?

My mum has always been like this too spider She was really not there in terms of emotional support as we grew up but she thinks we had all the material things so should just accept it.I dread every xmas when they come but this year I had decided enough is enough.I am literally on the edge of my seat with her and can never let her see how happy I am with my life and dp etc so this year i was totally myself as if she wasn't there and it was great She joined in was nice to everyone and I can't tell you the difference it made even dp noticed.She might be jealous of the way you love and bring up your children i know my mum looks on in amazement as ds gets so much time and love and I think my being a good mum although it really irks her I can see regret in her too.Be yourself adn next time you feel like keeping quiet to keep the peace -don't!You are good enough as you are and she is not the only person in the world you have to please Being happy is the best revenge

My mum is also the one for whom all the material things count. She seems to think that the fact that she gave us (almost) everything we wanted proves to us (that's my and my brother) that she loved us very much. However, we never got cuddles, hugs, and not much praise either. We got more comments that were: I give you all the opportunities you could have in life and you're just wasting them.
When my ds was first born I decided I wanted to be a SAHM, and for 2y I kept hearing that it was bad for him and that I was spoiling him . Now that I'm a full time student she's happy that they finally get the opbringing they deserve. I think that at the time when I was a SAHM, it was a kind of protest to all the pressure I was under when I was younger to perform at my best and to be a high achiever. After 2y with my DS I decided that actually I was a bit bored and needed some more mental stimulation. However the decision to do my midwifery training was my own and not hers and now I think I'm a better mum for it.

Oh and she's still no good at emotional support. At moments where I suffer from lows in my (very demanding) training, she's no use to me whatso ever. All she says is: well it was your choice to do this course, get over it. And I never thought you'd be a good midwife anyway I've kind of learnt to ignore it, but it's not easy.

My mums lives about 5/6 miles away. I see her probably once every two weeks. We used to be very close but when I was addicted to valium..we had a HUGE argument and it ALL came out...

I can sort-of see why she is like she is, but she does annoy me immensly at times and I would think that spending 4 days with each other...we would fall out...lots!!

She acts like I am 13!!

I echo hunker's sentiments.
I have a lovely mum. DD adores her and we are in seventh heaven when she comes round.
My house can be a tip, with a mountain of ironing, but she says - go out and enjoy yourelves - it doesn't matter!
When DH and I get home, quite often the ironing has been done. She once bleached my horrid slate tiled kitchen floor till it gleamed.

Our in-joke now is that I ring her up and say 'Mum, when are you coming round? The floor needs cleaning...' Meaning, could you babysit please!

I'm always very of people who have these great relationships with their Mums. I was chatting to afriend the other day and realised that I'd rather go out for an evening with her mum than mine!

Fortunatley she lives nearby so I don't have her to stay but she drops in once or twice a week and seems to think that "SAHM" means "nothing to do Mum" and is always a bit surprised if I'm out or doing something!

Just read through this thread properly and it is very interesting, not least because some of you who describe good and positive adult relationships with your mothers describe a relationship very similar to the one I had with my mother until very recently. She was very supportive of me when I had my dc and always did practical things to help me out and would listen for hours when I had a problem with a friend or DH. I too "shared a brain" with my mother, as Hunkermumker puts it. But like Spidermama, my mother could not deal with me being needy in other ways, ie when it came to my emotions in relation to her and the family, and I realised that "sharing a brain" translated to a very co-dependent relationship whereby her loving me was conditional on me thinking the same as her, sharing her opinions and never ever criticising her. This has prevented me from seeing my whole life and role in my family for what it really is. I have now realised that my mother is narcissistic, and that I was just there for her and to reflect her in a good light and make her feel good about herself and that my feelings actually count for nothing as they will always take second place to hers.

Since you said you liked self-help books, Spidermama, I too would recommend "Families and How to Survive them" and for breaking the cycle "Toxic Parents" by Dr Susan Forward and Alice Miller's books "The drama of Being a Child" and "For your own Good: The roots of violence in Childhood" (which is not just about violence but all types of child-rearing which denies the child access to her emotions. The latter in particular states that intellectual realisation alone is not enough but needs to be backed up with the corresponding emotional breakthough in order for you to move on (ie therapy).

PS Therapy is expensive but a the ad says "I'm worth it"!! Seriously, though, if you want to do it, think about how much you would spend on a new outfit to make yourself feel good, and I bet you would spend less on therapy in a month...and that makes you feel good from the inside.

I also wanted to say sorry Swedishmama and Time4me that you have had a tough time. I do believe that bringing it into your awareness is half the battle against the repetition compulsion, but it is not easy, so don't beat yourself up if you don't get it right all of the time. "Toxic parents" is very good on this subject.

Alice Miller says that if you have been damaged as a child it is hard to see your own child before you, full of life and vitality, how a human is meant to be, how you would have been had you not had obstacles placed in your way, and not feel some upset and occasionally take your feelings out on them. I think this can be true no matter how much you love your child. I think saying sorry for your mistakes and letting your child know it is you that has the problem not them is the best you can do in that situation.

Having said that, I think I have more love, patience, etc for my dc than ever as a result of the not so good parts of my childhood (but I had my dc later on and I don't think I would have been such a good mum at 20).

Noddyholder, we developed a bit of a catchphrase on another thread whereby one of the m'netters mum's, when confronted with the neglect and abuse she had inflicted on her daughter, said : "But we took you to stately homes!" as if that wiped out everything else. It made me LOL.

I love my mama.

Friday nights are my chat to Mama night, when I spend all evening talking to her.

I love her laugh.

Thanks for all the advice -great,I don`t feel so alone x

I love my mum dearly. she's a wonderful mum, a great mil and the best granny I could possibly imagine. she's good company. she's interesting, she's helpful, she's considerate. she adores dds - she talks to them, engages them, sees them as the little people they are. she offers to cook, she goes to bed early so we can watch tv with swear words or sex in it without being embarrassed. she strips the bed when she leaves. but after a day or two? god she can get on my tits. I have no idea why. I hate myself for it. but I think it's just a mother and daughter thing. I know for sure I would be utterly lost without her.

I have a terrible on/off relationship with my mum AND step mum (yes ladies I have two mums!!!!) Am thinking of reading a few of those books that were suggested, but also wanted to say how much I loved Expats post. Lovely to hear the other side...x Hope my ds feels the same one day I trying.....

My mammy is the dogs bollox!!

She really is!!

She comes to visit us whenever she can bribe anyone to drive her over here (about 30 miles away but she doesn't drive)

She doesn't know much about me, she always asks if I am still at college (Uni!) She asks me if I have lost/gained weight.. "You haven't put it all back on again dear ?

She visited last week when I was ill. When I got up the next day I found all my washing had been ironed & sat at bedroom doors to be put away, she had also did another wash & put them on airers in the spare room... she hand washed our dishes even though we have a dishwasher "It'll give you more room for when I leave dear"

She's a pet. She spent all her life doing without just so we could have what our hearts desired, now is her time. In fact, I think I'll text her now to tell her I love her, I don't do it often enough

Sorry for the gush........

I feel bad for feeling so indebted to my mother, yet I barely give my father a second thought... is this the same for everyone, or are you all close to your dad also?

I find it really heartwarming to hear of the women who have great relationships with their mothers. It gives me hope for me and my DD.

sorry for putting this on this thread but,

[Question for Pages: I havent had any therapy about with my problems, but Ive talked it through and through with family, and on here, and have read books, and have made sure my mum cant keep treating me like that. So my question is, do you think I can overcome this without therapy? Sometimes I think Ive done so well, and I think Ive broke the cycle by not being violent or never getting angry with DD, and not neglecting her/forgetting to feed her and all the other obvious things that my mum did. Seeing her happy with or without me makes me happy, instead of making me feel threatened, like my mum obviously felt. But when you say that your mum couldnt ever be criticised and that your good relationship depended on whether you were being compliant, I get a cold shiver at the thought that I might ever do that to DD. The thing is, I feel a can of worms has already been opened in my heart, and its so painful, and I just donT think Ive got the strengh to analyse it all again in therapy. What do you think? I mean, you`VE read my posts on the other thread. DO you think my awareness is going to be enough, or should I attempt some kind of therapy too?

Good posts pages. I've read Toxic Parents but not the others you suggest. I'm stillnot sure about the need to confront as outlined in Toxic Parents.

There's another called something like, When You and Your Mother Can't Be Friends. I found that briliant.

The problem is I get it. Intellectually I understand and can move on. But it doesn't translate emotionally.

Some interesting posts here. I don't have a good relationship with my mum.

My mum was great until I hit puberty - at which point she turned into a complete bitch. I remember her adjective of choice being "grotesque" - she would tell me on a daily basis that I was "grotesque", that I would never find a boyfriend, never get a good job because I was so fat etc, etc. (To put this into context, I was 5' 4" and weighed 9.5 stone at the time. Funny to think I have "issues" about food now). When I got good school reports, that was because "they don't know you like I do".

On top of all this, she split up from my dad when I was 11 and spent most of the next few years going out with a string of unsuitable men. There was a guy 15 years younger, an alcoholic, a serial philanderer, a married man... And those are just the ones I knew about. I was, of course, supposed to like all of them and be happy for her. In the end, she married a guy at the other end of the country and so I had to tag along, too, leaving all my friends behind. (I found out she was getting remarried from my headmaster, by the way. Mum had visited hime behind my back to talk about me moving schools. Poor guy - when he mentioned it to me, he had no idea that mum hadn't seen fit to mention this to me first. He was very kind to me.)

The upshot of all this is that I have a very strained realtionship with my mum that persists to this day. There's a lot of stuff I've never forgiven her for. Sadly, I think she hasn't got a clue why I feel so much resentment towards her. Logically, I think I should be over it all by now - after all, we are talking about things from 20+ years ago. But thinking about that time in my life can still make me cry. Even I think "get over yourself!".

Mum has always been a very needy person. I think, during my teenage years, she was terrified of being left without a man. She tells me all her woes and problems - but I never tell her anything about what's happening in my life. When I had my miscarriages, I never told her because I knew it would somehow turn into some terrible thing that had happended to her.

My great fear is that history will repeat itself, and a few years down the line, my own dds will be talking about me in similar vein.

For all that, she is quite a good granny and does more for my kids than their other granny does, despite the fact that my mother lives abroad and MIL lives 30 minutes away. I completely understand about how it would actually be easier having her living nearer so she could just come along for an afternoon at a time. As it is, she usually stays for a few days and I feel so tense and wound up by the time she finally leaves.

Spidermama, that was the reason I was saying about therapy as this allows you to "get it" on an emotional level as well as on an intellectual one. If you are having that "Aha" moment but not feeling any different emotionally it may be that you do need some therapy. That's just my perception, obviously, but I have found it has helped enourmously for me.

And I guess that kind of answers Sakura's question too. I am obviously no expert and the experts tend to be divided about whether you can do it yourself or whether you need therapy and I think the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. I have read a lot of self-help books and like you guys dealt with a lot of stuff by myself or with the help of friends (talking on mumsnet has helped me a great deal) and I dealt some years ago with my feelings of loss over the death of my father without therapy and really feel that I am "over" that now. John Cleese and Robin Skinner say that your partner can be your best shrink and I think in many ways that is true.

But despite everything I have read and processed intellectually I still don't feel I could face my mother again just yet (although I am getting there) without going back into that childhood place of feeling guilty and bad about having upset her, and without absorbing her blame and projections.

As for the relationship with our children, I do think that it is possible not to repeat your past and you sound so loving and protective of your DD Sakura, as someone said on another thread, if you are even asking this question you care enough not to repeat your past with your DD. I had little emotional support or physical affection as a child and yet I feel enormous amounts of empathy and love towards my children, and that was before I had therapy so clearly my mother's emotional coldness has not affected my capacity to feel for others. But then, I have two boys. I have wondered whether if I had a girl whether I might, even unconsciously, pass stuff on. It is a tough one but I think in all honesty that all of us have such an awareness and are questioning the whole issue so much that we will know if we are mistakes and will do what we need to do if and when the time comes.

Finally, re the confrontation issue, I agree that too is a tough one. I could have dealt with my feelings towards my mother in therapy and never said a word to her but for me I just don't think I would have got to the point of change within myself that I had if I had cried my eyes out and punched a pillow for six months and then hugged my mother and carried on telling her what a great mum she is when I saw her. For me this whole process has been about being authentic, true to myself, rediscovering my real deep-rooted feelings and I really needed the confrontation. It is interesting because Alice Miller also seems to suggest that it is necessary to express your anger with your parents and she says that the greatest cruelty that can be inflicted on children is to refuse to let them express their anger and suffering except at the risk of losing their parents' love and affection. Which is of course is what has happened to me. But I am still glad I did it, because it has changed my life.

Finally I just wanted to say too how lovely ExpatinScotland's post was and I am genuinely happy for all those of you who have lovely relationships with your mums.

Thanks for your insights Pages. YOu know, I was thinking about what you wrote about being the greatest cruelty to children is to not let them express their anger. I think thats true.
In a sense I had it slightly easier than you, even though I effectively suffered more. It was her extreme behaviour that that made me sit up and realise something was not right, and then when I delved deeper, all the rest of her personality problems came to the forefront. In fact, the subtler bullying that you describe is more damaging, more hurtful, but much harder to spot. I would never have spotted her personality problems if she was as subtle as your mum is. It took some really crazy behaviour before I could notice it! So in a sense, it helped me to be freed sooner IYKWIM

Sorry, keep having more thoughts about all this! Just wanted to add, Sakura, you sound nothing like your mother, she is clearly nuts and I know you won't mind me saying that. As for the bit that made you go cold, I don't think you are like my mother either! It has always been my mother's inability to hear anything that threatens the elaborate defense system she has built up for herself -and the very real threat of her abandoning me if I did - that led to me being so compliant. All I ever wanted was for her to just put her arms around me, acknowledge my hurt and say she is sorry for what happened but I know that will never happen. She never ever says sorry for anything.

But I don't think you will be like that because you are able to admit that you might make mistakes (like all of us). Alice Miller says it is not the mistakes (and therefore the harm caused) themselves that has the lasting damage for the child - it is the parent's refusal to allow the child to express their hurt and anger that causes the ingrained damage. I found that comforting because I am pretty certain that whatever mistakes I make with my dc I will be abe to let them be angry and say sorry to them.

Lucyju it was a long time ago for me too and I really believed it was all in the past until something happened last year that dragged it all up again. Volcanoes have a way of erupting no matter how long they have been simmering. A friend told me once that his grandmother had a nervous breakdown in her 70's and it was traced back to a miscarriage and lack of grieving when she was 20...

My post crossed with yours Sakura - thanks for your insights too. It wasn't until recently that I realised how inconsistent care-giving can make it really hard to separate the loving behaviour from the cruelty.

I get on really well with my mum now, although we didn't like each other much when I was a teenager/ in my early 20s. I actually think that the older I get, the more like my mum I become, esp after having children. Sadly I haven't inherited her passion for housework, but we're both quite quiet, fairly self-contained and happy to be on our own.

When she comes to visit now it great. She never mentions the house (even though it wouldn't be up to her high standards) and is very kind, helpful and supportive. I never would have believed it 20 years ago but things/relationships can change

Pages your description
'feeling guilty and bad about having upset her, and without absorbing her blame and projections'
could be about me and my mum.
I see what you mean about the confrontation. The way I see it though is that my mum probably really did have a tougher up-bringing than me. She lives on her own and I wouldn't be able to risk causing her that much upset. She didn't do it on purpose after all.
I know what you mean about being true to yourself though.

Lucyju I can really sympathise. I'm not in the least bit surprised you're still upset over it. I'm amazed and impressed that you still have contact with her.

The neediness sounds like my mum. I remember I was helping her to move house by driving her around in Devon to see what areas she might like (I lived in London at the time) when I started having my first miscarriage. She was so dismissive. She didn't know how to be, how to care for me. She was saying, 'Nonsense. It'll be fine. Stop fussing' when I first reported seeing the blood.

I don't think I'd have even noticed because this is such normal behaviour for my mum but then we arrived at her cousins house and the contrast in behaviour was stark. I suddenly knew how it should be. Her cousin began mothering me. She sad me down, made me comfortable, made me tea and booked me an appointment at the hospital. She then took me in. I'm so unused to anyone caring for me like that. It felt really strange and lovely and it made me very emotional. It felt absolutely right though. (Like the time I was sobbing for some reason when I was a teenager one new year's eve and my mum's friend, who was visiting, came up to hug me and talk to me. I didn't know I needed/deserved a hug up until that point).

I miscarried about a week later and my mum was just absent. It's like she was abroad or something.

Something in me snapped when I was in labour with ds2. I had decided to invite mum along to the birth because I'd had such a lovely smooth first birth that I thought it would be a good bonding experience and it would be great for mum to be at the birth of a grand child. I was doing it for her, out of misplaced generosity. I know now that was ridiculous but I've always put her needs before mine because that is the way it has always been.

Anyway she was so awful. I had a slow, long labour and a painful build up. It was nothing like the first birth. I remember her rolling her eyes and looking impatient and irritable. She actually said to dh, 'Why can't she just get on with it? What a fuss'.
I remember asking dh, in between horribly contractions, to ask mum to take dd1 to my brother's and stay there with her so I could clear the house and get on with labour. She was furiouis and still is to this day. She thinks I was unfriendly and treated her as if she was unwanted.
I've tried to bring this up since and she actually defends herself and attacks my unwelcoming behaviour. She recounts how awful it was for her to have to struggle off in a taxi with her dog (big stinking dog I'd been willing to tolerate at the birth!) and my 15 month old dd into a taxi to go to my brothers.
Hmmm. Taxi ride or deeply traumatic birth. Who would you say was the more needy at this point in time?

This, and the behaviour directly after it, has caused a rift.

She was similarly needy when I was anorexic as a teenager. She simply didn't notice it then when my sister intervened and made me get help my mum just didn't ever talk about it. She has still never talked about it to this day.

Whoops! Another out pouring. Sorry this is long. And this is the editted down version.

I think you might be right about counselling pages. How do I go about it? Through the doctor?

I think past stuff lingers so much- I don't think I can ever feel comfortable with my mother.

She was seriously mentally ill and permanently enraged when I was growing up. I was terrified of her. She blatantly favoured my younger sister, as she had PND after me, a fact of which I was constantly reminded. I find I am still really bitter about all that.

She had 15 years of therapy, is now a psychotherapist (!!) and thinks that she is a totally sorted, nice person. She is certainly better than she was but I am a clinical depressive, probably a result of my upbringing, and I'm not allowed to talk about that, or I get her cr*ppy excuses such as 'well I tried' or 'well look at you you're alright now aren't you' (because I have a husband and child and we are not poor.) I can only deal with her by being quite controlling and patronising of her- she is totally useless, managed to break the dishwasher when trying to 'help' us when DS was small. My father has always done everything for her and she tends to sit and witter in the living room.

I just can't stand that godawful 'motherspeak'- when they can literally chatter about NOTHING for hours, when you are clearly hurting and seething.

Interestingly Pages I was an anorexic teenager too. I think it is very common in those of us who have had cold, controlling, randomly angry types of mothers. Like you, if I seemed needy I got more aggression, not concern. I think we internalise that. I found my son's infant crying intensely difficult to deal with because that kind of raw helplessness really sets me off.

I have tried therapy but could never find the right one. Yoga, etc, help me- finding your own place inside where no one is criticising, no one is pushing you. I also take antidepressants except while pregnant. Writing down your feelings is a good form of self-therapy. But this is a lifelong road and by god it does pass down. My mother hated her own parents. I so sincerely hope DS does not grow up to hate and resent me in that way but I know that I am not a 'strong' person emotionally and that I am bad-tempered but I do try to apologise to him and to show him unconditional love. My own mother has never once said sorry to me.

God, what an awful time you have had CharlieQ and Spidermama. It does seem there are a lot of mothers of our parents' generation who have not resolved their own childhood issues and whose needs have been allowed to overshadow those of their children. My mother had a tough time growing up too, but I really think the buck has to stop somewhere. I actually think my mother would be happier if she were to acknowledge the ways in which she failed me and say sorry so we could move on past it, but the family system is so established they all just see it as me rocking the boat (trying to split the family up, as my mum said).

I didn't go to my GP for counselling, I went privately. I just got the name of someone local from Yell and phoned them and we just clicked, but you shouldn't be afraid to shop around if you don't get on with the first person you ring. I know it is expensive (around 35 per hour) but even if you can't afford to go weekly you could go once a fortnight instead - it is not much more than a months gym membership, for instance, or a new outfit. I think it is the idea of spending all that money on just talking that makes people think they would rather spend their money elsewhere but I know it is making a huge difference to my life.

I think the only problem with going on the NHS is that there may be a waiting list and I think you get a finite number of sessions.