Staying because I can't bear the thought of DH 'point scoring' with the children if we split

[dischuffed]

DH and I haven't been getting on for sometime. He doesn't want to talk about the issues, or get counselling, and when we do talk it turns into recriminations with him bringing up grievances and grudges from years ago. We have 2 DC and I work full time during term time and pt in holidays while DH works weekends. We end up tag parenting and have v different ideas about parenting. DH will use the children to point score rather than doing what's best / responsible for them.
I'd got used to dealing with the situation but was listening to someone talk recently about sharing their plans and dreams for the future with their DP and realised this is just never going to happen for us.
BUT I can't bear the thought of how DH would behave over the children if we did split. Has anyone else stuck it out? Is it worth it?

Don't be silly.

I'm afraid I don't understand. Can you explain a bit aboutb what your DH does that bothers you?

It is your firm belief that, if you were to split, your DH would behave like a manipulative dick. And do so even if it were to have a detrimental effect on your children.

Is that right?

In that case you must absolutely split up with him.

Because children are not stupid, and they get less stupid every day.

By staying with him you will be teaching them that this kind of person is the kind of person who you should stay with.

Is that the message you want to give them?

DH doesn't seem to enjoy being the 'main carer' when he is with the DC but I can see him making difficulties over custody arrangements simply as a way of getting at me. There's v little partnership working going on even now so I worry that he'd be obstructive rather than co-operating to make things the best can be for the DC.

....but Trills, can I put them through a childhood of being used as pawns by their dad and disrupting what stability they have? We're not in a brilliant place financially with me being the main breadwinner so a split would have a big impact on them materially too

I presume he already uses them as pawns, or where did you get this idea, OP?

He is behaving appallingly now and his actions are about power and control. He is conducting his own private war with you. You and he splitting up would not change anything in that respect. If he continued not to behave decently, then he would not see them. You think that such a man would want to see his children long term post separation; he would likely continue to use them to get back at you.

What are you getting out of this relationship now? You're getting something from it so what is it? Sticking this out for the children is an extremely bad idea; they won't say thanks mum but instead will call you daft and ask you why you put this man before them.

What are you teaching your children about relationships here; that a miserable and loveless relationship is their norm too?. Staying within this simply teaches them that particularly damaging lesson.

I don't actually see how it would be worse if you split. It is certainly bad enough already.

I know so many people who "stay" in a relationship because they are scared of how the children would react or what it would do to them but ultimately staying in an unhappy marriage is more harmful in the long term.

Splitting up is never an easy ride and the children will take a while to adjust but they are resilient and will be fine as long as both parents love them.

If it is really that bad staying married to him then I think you need to just bite the bullet and split, it sounds like it pretty bad already

I see OP's point. What if he manipulates the children into hating their mother or believing her to be a shrew and a nag? What if at dad's house, there's ice cream for breakfast and no bedtime? What about when they start asking to go be with him instead of her, because he has money and no rules, while their mother is rule-bound and doesn't let them get away with everything?

I've seen this exact scenario play out. When I saw it happen (with a friend), the DCs have ended up borderline sociopathic, call their mother "bitch" and "cunt" all the time, are misogynistic assholes, and think the sun rises and sets on their cunt of a father.

Children aren't stupid, but they're also not always able to see manipulation for what it is, and if they're manipulated as children, they may be too brainwashed to get out from under it as adults. That's why we don't let children sign contracts and why we don't let adults engage in romantic/sexual relationships with children: they're terribly vulnerable and cannot see what's best for them. With hindsight, perhaps OP's children will tell her she should have left their bastard of a father, but if she actually does, it's possible he'll get his claws in so deep that they'll never really come out.

I'm so sorry, OP. You sound stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have no particular advice to offer, just a perspective.

I spent most of my childhood wishing my parents would separate and finding ways to escape the constant bad atmosphere between my parents. They could go weeks without speaking to each other. Your kids are dumb, they will soon workout who is playing the mind games and manipulation. My advice would be to split for the sake of your kids.