alcohol and marriage - thin end of every wedge

[stealtheatingtunnocks]

My husband's drinking has increased as his ability to be affectionate or nurturing towards me or our 3 kids has waned.

He's not abusive, not aggressive, not violent. Certainly has a case of "vino veritas" mind. And, he's short tempered with our children in general, one of our kids is chronically unwell and h e's not really able to be involved with that. So, I've coped alone. He's coped by drinking. That's really a bit shit.

He's a good man, really, he's doing his best - but, sadly, his best appears to be, at best, a bit shit.

He copes with life with wine.

I've just worked out that he's going through 130-150 units a week.

Suspect our marriage is fecked. I've tried not buying wine, I've tried speaking to him, I've tried buying him as much as he wants, I've tried laying all the empties out in the hall ,I've begged, I've cried, I've raged.

He holds down a job with ease. He's never late. He's never missed a day. However, I suspect he's actually dependent.

So, what would you advise?

The last person to see their alcoholism is the alcoholic themselves
It probably the only thing you can suffer from and your mind tells you nothing is wrong
You husband has to see this for himself and until he does nothing will change and will get worse
He may well hold down a job many a functioning alcoholics do
Alcoholism is not how much you drink or when you drink but what it does to you
Sorry no easy answer and you may well have to leave him to it He I am sure is not a bad one but a very sick one who really needs help but until he realises this then nothing you can do will alter this
Sorry if this does not help but as an alcoholic who has been sober quite a long time I know there are no easy answers Once he finally decides to accept it then anything is possible
The only person that might be able to get through to him is another alcoholic in recovery Do you know any ?

Bloody autocorrect Man not one

I would tell him you're going to Al-Anon. He's definitely an alcoholic. I struggled with the word for years, giving every justification under the sun: I work full time, I'm a functioning single parent, I don't drink before my daughter's in bed etc. I could give up completely for weeks or months - once I gave up for two years. I was still an alcoholic.

Not everyone "loses everything" but things tend to get a lot worse before they get better. I absolutely shudder to think of the way I behaved, but when alcohol has you in its grip and you are an alcoholic, you're totally powerless and your life is unmanageable.

AA tells us not to regret the past but I certainly do - I affected the person I love most in the world. Luckily she has no addictive gene but so very many (most) of the stories in AA are from people who grew up in a household where one parent was an alcoholic.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this - it's a hideous thing to deal with. Cunning, baffling and powerful.

Like many posts of this type (and there have been many) its mainly about the alcoholic. Everything and everyone revolves around that person.

Alcoholism is truly a family disease that does not just affect the alcoholic. You need to get off this merry go around that is alcoholism before he drags you all further down with him. Your children are being affected by their dad's alcoholism and they will need support too.

How many people know he has a drink problem, not many I daresay.
Alcoholism as well thrives on secrecy; start opening up to people like your GP. Do not excuse or cover for him any more.

The 3cs re alcoholism:-
You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this

He's already had more than enough rope and you are still there; you need to think about why that is. That is why I also mention co-dependency.

I mean this most kindly but as his wife you are precisely the last person who can help him. Besides which he does not want your help. You cannot help someone who does not want to be helped and he does not want your help or support. He like many alcoholics is in denial of how bad things are (well he has a job currently but for how long?), blames you and badly underestimating how much he is drinking.

Your own recovery from his alcoholism will only properly start when you are completely removed from this.

He may well love the kids but he loves alcohol more than they. Your children are already wary of him and rightly so. He is a drunkard after all. They cannot and must not grow up thinking that all this is somehow normal. They could also end up with a whole raft of emotional and relationship problems (or even become alcoholic themselves) stemming from what they saw as children with regards to parental alcoholism.

His primary relationship is with drink and his thoughts mainly centre on where the next drink is going to come from.

I have to look at you as well because you are part of this and you've played the usual roles associated with such people (provoker i.e. you never forget, enabler, codependent). Co-dependency often features where alcoholism is concerned and I would look at your own co-dependency issues here very carefully. They need addressing now.

Ultimatums do not work, they can only be issued once and a person has to be fully prepared to carry it out otherwise there is no point in issuing such a thing. He has likely heard similar from you before so he has and will not take you at all seriously. Such people also do not change. Infact he could go onto lose everything and still choose to drink afterwards.

Do contact Al-anon; they are very helpful to family members of problem drinkers.

Great post Attila

Unless he himself decides to seek help by addressing his alcoholism properly there is absolutely nothing you can do to help him.

You can however, help your own self and going to Al-anon will be a good start. There is also Alateen which is aimed at younger people.

Great post Attila

As one alcoholic to (the wife of) another, yes, he sounds like an alcoholic to me who is deep in denial. You're right that he is sick, but the rock bottom you mention is only likely to be reached when he starts losing things - you and easy access to his DC for a start.

For the person who is staying to put their DC through school - you are also putting them at the highest possible risk of addiction themselves. The biggest risk factor is an alcoholic parent, which is my story and so many others.

Al-Anon will really shift your mindset if you let it - the best thing you can do for him in the long run, and you and the DC in every kind of run (!) is to leave him to it. I hope you are ok, and that today is helpful.

Double post Lobster

Box that was me. My children are teens. They know their father is an alcoholic and that what he does is not the norm. They are adamantly anti alcohol because of it and we talk openly about their father's addiction - it is not normalised or minimised. And actually my decision to stay is far from set in stone. However, right now I am also dealing with the impending death of my father which is only months away. I can't do it all at once.

I was very anti as a teenager and into my early 20s. A psychologist explained to me while I was in treatment why that doesn't work and makes you higher risk, if anything. Happy to explain what he said.
But I'm sorry if I appeared to make things sound easy - it's not easy at all, far from it. I wish you all the very best and some good memories in your father's last days/weeks - however long he has.

I know that they are at risk. They know they are at risk too. But they are also at risk of harm if I break up the family. My DH is American and he has said that he will go back to the US if we split. That means contact will be all but impossible, all the more because I KNOW that his drinking will worsen if we split. So I will not be able to send DDs over to stay with him because I will not be able to trust him, and he won't travel here to see them. Then there is the cost. I work so will be done financially but it will kill all family life and it will destroy DH. There are no easy options here. I plan to have a talk after my Dad passes and go from there. Divorce is not off the table.

Atilla, you're right, absolutely right.

I have been excusing his behaviour for years and years. It's a subtle thing, really, this onset of alcoholism. He denies anyway, seeing as how he doesn't get the DTs or need a drink in the morning. He's wrong, he is emotionally dependent.

Pointy, I'm sorry about your dad. And, I also have the same worries, DH is British, but, has said that if we split up he'd never see us again - some waffle about emigrating to Canada and/or killing himself. Swears he didn't mean it now, of course. Hope your dad's comfortable and you're happy with his care, that's a heap on your plate just now.

Box, that's a good point. The kids are 12, 10 and 8. Too old to be blind to it.

Al Anon tomorrow lunchtime for me. I need some information about what the usual pattern is from here. Because, seems we are a cliche family. Hey ho.

Really appreciate the advice, folks, thank you so much.

Your words here also make me think that you are profoundly affected by the family disease that is alcoholism. It does not just affect the alcoholic. Again this post is mainly about him, everything does revolve around this person.

What "harm" will they face if you break up the family? They are being exposed to harm now but him living under the same roof as they are. You have not caused the family to fracture so; he has done that himself by his actions. No-one forced him to start drinking, he did that of his own free will.

Better to be apart than to be together in alcoholic misery as you are now. You know as well that you cannot fully protect them from their dad's alcoholism.

Re your comment:-
"My DH is American and he has said that he will go back to the US if we split. That means contact will be all but impossible, all the more because I KNOW that his drinking will worsen if we split. So I will not be able to send DDs over to stay with him because I will not be able to trust him, and he won't travel here to see them. Then there is the cost. I work so will be done financially but it will kill all family life and it will destroy DH".

I think your DH talks a lot of BS designed to keep you in your place. Its all empty talk; what alternative employment will he get in the US anyway even if he is an American citizen?.

There are two parts in this comment that make me think you are still very much a co-dependent and acting as such:-
"I know his drinking will worsen if we split"
"it will kill all family life and it will destroy DH"

You still feel very much responsible for him and that is all part of your own co-dependency. That really needs addressing, you are just as caught up in his alcoholism as he is. You are not responsible for him although you think you are. He does not feel any sort of responsibility towards you and your children; he is more than happy to run back to the US and never see them again. None of that is your fault so why do you think it is?

You have a choice here re this man; your children do not.

What sort of talk do you want and with whom after your Dad passes?. If you are referring to your DH here then you are wasting your breath.

Good luck with the Al-anon meeting Stealth. Keep us posted. I would suggest you also read their literature.

You asked upthrad how to make ultimatums work. There is only one way, don't make them unless you mean them and carry them through.

Hopefully Al Anon will help you unravel all of the emotional blackmail and co-dependency. They helped me when DHs family was falling apart. I could see why he was drinking, I could talk to him about it and he decided he could break the family habit and stop using it as a crutch. He still drinks, we both do, but far, far less and no binging, no getting utterly pissed, sort of regular unwinding in the evening with tea, use.

But I only ever made one ultimatum, that I would leave if he continued... "I do not want to grow old with a man who loves alcohol more than he loves me" ... that ultimatum still stands and he knows it.

Hi OP and everyone.
My DH is I think very possibly an alcoholic. I have a previous thread about it. He drinks 70 units per week - but maybe more, I no longer check. He drinks every single day, and my guess is at least 1 bottle of wine. It is a constant in his life.
I spent a lot of time trying to get him to change. He wouldn't talk about it - it made him very defensive and 'sad' when I brought it up. It drove me crazy!
In the end I was in touch with al-anon just by email, and their advice had a very positive affect on my life. I now always remember: I didn't cause it, I cannot control it; I cannot cure it.
We are still together, I still love my DH very very much. I now mostly don't think about his alcoholism at all. At any rate, I am only interested in it insofar as it affects me or the children. I don't like the bedroom having alcoholic fumes sometimes when he is asleep. And I will always be alert for any failure to look after the children (none that I can see). I am aware that his normalization of alcohol is bad for them, but I'm not going to leave him over that. They can also see me just having the occasional sociable drink.
I recommend getting in touch with al-anon. It doesn't mean you need to leave him. But you do need to detach from his alcoholism because there is exactly nothing you can do about that.

Attila no, I do not feel responsible for his welfare. That ship has sailed. I feel and am responsible for my children's welfare and it is them I want to talk to. They have a right to know that they may well lose their father. Personally for me, if DH dropped dead tomorrow I would be more relieved than sad.

He would get employment in the US because he has transferable skills and experience and a solid record of being a good and reliable employee. He is very much a functioning alcoholic, like many. Which is why he believes he isn't one.

If he does run back to the US of course that is on him. Why would I think otherwise? But I need to be honest and open with my girls about it all. I owe them that, they are 13 and 15 and should be listened to. Though I will be the one to decide. I think our lives would be better without him.

My first marriage ended due to addiction OP, so the ultimatum didn't work for me in the sense that it made exH change his behaviour.

Once I had issued it though, I had to carry it out. So I left, and it was the right decision.

So, Maisie, the ultimatum did work for you. You made it, you left, you were happier. Well done.