How do I mend my relationship with my SIL?

[debsam]

I have had a fairly OK relationship with my SIL until recently. We don't have much in common and live a long way away from each other and so see her very rarely. However, I like her and have had few problems until recently.

My mother passed away earlier this year and at the funeral, in front of my SIL's sister, who had come both to support her sister and because she knew my mum, I asked her if she had brought a hat (as this is the tradition in our religion). It was only after it came out of my mouth that I realised that I had embarrassed her in front of her sister and probably had made her feel uncomfortable. In my defence, I was obviously very upset but it probably looked as though I was more concerned about the trappings and traditions than her feelings (as I am sure that she was also very upset). After the service, I did apologise to her and say that I had been insensitive and was really sorry. I know that she was feeling insecure because she did not know our traditions and was feeling very out of place, and , in retrospect, I know that I shouldn't have said anything. (My brother could also have given her some guidance but he didn't so we have to live with that).

Roll on a couple of months and we are sorting now out my mother's house. Although I have been speaking often with my brother, I hadn't spoken to my SIL since the funeral. To add to the mix is the fact that I didn't send them a card for their 25th wedding anniversary which was a month after the funeral. I did try to phone to speak to my SIL in person but either I kept missing her or she just wasn't taking calls from me. I know I should have tried harder but, thb, I was in a very dark place from which I am slowly recovering.

However, my brother has now told me that his wife wants nothing more to do with the family and doesn't want to help him with anything to do with sorting out my mother's house. What goes on between him and his wife is for him to address but I hate to think that I have burnt all my bridges with his wife. I have apologised to her but I don't believe that she really accepted it and hearing that she doesn't want anything to do with us just confirms it in my mind. I know that we are unlikely to see them again very often (only weddings and funerals probably) but I don't like leaving it like this.

Any suggestions from anyone?

I'm sorry about the death of your mother and I can see you want to mend things.

It comes across like you hold her more responsible for doing or not doing things that your brother should have or could have done.

Such as thanking for the gifts .... your DB should ensure his children do that and the visiting of your mother too. I know it's a difficult time, but I often see the SIL/ DIL gets blamed for things when it should be directed to the son of the family. I think it's because there is an expectation of women in many culturesand religions.

She likely feels she was never good enough for your family and even though it was years ago they tried to convert her to your religion.

It's a shame it's come to this really.

It's worth recognising that being with people for whom religion is part of their everyday life when you aren't religious can be tedious and can highlight the sense of not belonging.

She will always be your SIL, but you can't force her to be your friend. Perhaps once you've made one more effort, you can respect her decision.

sneeringly dismissive that sounds?

oh, please! Ridiculous to say that. Nothing 'sneering' or 'dismissive' about it. Just a fact that SIL has no 'outward sign of religion'. Op has already made it clear she doesn't judge SIL for her 'lack' of religion.

However SIL married into a family where religion is the bedrock of family life. yy they had a rocky start but that was overcome. It's in the past.

It sounds to me that SIL was holding on until the matriarch passed away. Maybe she had always decided she was going to step away at that stage.

Great shame, though. You apologised and that's that so I'd forget about the hat - I don't think it's the issue. I'd still try to include her for the sake of the family though. Make it clear you value her and her part in the family but I wouldn't apologise for your traditions - she knew what she was getting into when she married your brother.

I'm not sure that people who are not religious realise just what marrying into a religious family entails, when everyday life and decisions are affected by religion. It can feel very alien to someone whose personal choices have only ever been made according to their own wishes as opposed to being dictated to a large extent by rules and traditions of religion.

The big problem here with debsam's SIL is that she married "in" but the family emphasis is that the son married "out", and as she didn't convert she remained an outsider. For a traditional family the "out" is a very, very big deal.

I think 25 years of feeling like a second-class citizen has taken its toll.

I don't think you're being entirely genuine here op. On the one hand you describe yourself as welcoming, 'peacemaker' etc yet you are also dismissive of her faith (is she some type of Protestant? They do the Christian thing more quietly but can often still have a strong faith in their hearts)

If she had a lack of faith there wouldn't be things that were so 'contrary' to yours.

I'm suspecting your faith is Catholicism? I'm a lapsed catholic (the old joke - you're never an ex catholic just a bad one).

Did your db stay in your faith or has he gone 'out' upon marrying her? Did he also want her to convert?

I also think she's had enough and I don't think your continuing to contact her will help. Talk to db instead.

Also is it just her wanting nc or is she 'taking' their dc away from the family too? If so what's db's feelings on this?

I'm also sceptical given your contradictory comments on 'faaamily' being important but yet you've clearly not nurtured the relationship.

What's the reality? What is her perspective?

I think you are missing some pretty obvious cultural differences between a family which is Jewish and a non-Jewis family. For you the woman is at the heart of the family and dictates how family relationships are organised, and I would imagine that you SIL sees her DH's family as his responsibility and she is not needed to maintain those relationships. Whilst his DM was alive she would tolerate having a fairly minor role as his partner at family occasions.

Now your DM (& her DC's GM) has passed away she no longer has an obligation to maintain a relationship with people she has little in common with. Maintain a relationship with DB, his DW is really not someone you need to communicate with much surely?

Although I am quite close to my DHs sister, my relationship with her is quite unimportant in comparison with his relationship with his Sis. My own brother's wife is a sweet person, but I only chat to her in passing when I phone before she gets my brother to speak. Same with my BIL.

I do understand where the OP is coming from, as she is having to face both the loss of her mother and the loss of her brother's family.

Perhaps it has taken the loss of the matriarch for her to realise that the "superficial" relationship (her word) with her SIL should have been accorded more importance over the years for the family (ie extended family) to survive into the next generation. As long as the parents were alive, there was a reason (filial duty) to see each other occasionally. Now the parents have gone, the sense of duty has too. If DB and SIL see OP in the future it will be from choice, and SIL is choosing not to. As she has never felt close or even an accepted part of the family, this decision is not difficult for her.

debsam you don't say what your relationship with your DB is like. I know you live far from each other, but do you call each other regularly? Do you know how he has felt over the years? Although he knew there would be massive fallout when he married, he probably hoped his family would get over it and accept his choice. This didn't really happen. You say that you defended him to the point of arguing with your parents, but did you reach out directly to your SIL at this time so that she felt she had someone on her side? That was your opportunity to be a friend to her and create the closeness between your children and hers whose absence you are now regretting. A relationship consists of more than a cheque in the post for birthdays and Christmas.

Although I sympathise with how you feel, I think you should prepare yourself for the fact that your efforts are going to be perceived as too little, too late.

Again, thank you all for your perspectives on this. It has got me thinking about a lot of things - including how I truly treated my SIL. Sometimes we hide the truth from our own eyes to make it more palatable.

Regarding my SIL's faith, she does not align herself with any religion, having been brought up with no organised religion herself. The only thing that she did was Xmas - and that was the tree and presents, no religious celebration. I suspect that is why she found our faith so baffling, old-fashioned and restrictive. I did not mean to sound dismissive about her faith or that I didn't respect her religion - but, when I look at it with my eyes open, maybe I was dismissive. Because my religion (Jewish) envelops all of my life and thinking (what we eat, how we behave to others etc), I probably didn't embrace her point of view but expected her to at least respect mine.

I suspect that what people are saying is true. She has had enough of feeling second-best or not accepted (although I didn't mean for that to happen) and now that my DM has gone, she doesn't feel the need to carry on the facade.

I will make one more attempt but then accept that she has had enough. Then at least I will have felt that I tried my hardest to repair things. I can't make up for the past but I can try and repair the future.

Good luck debsam. I hope you manage to resolve things, as you sound sympathetic towards your SIL and haven't shied away from admitting your/your parents' role in this sad situation. I wonder if SIL is a MNetter? If I were your SIL and read your posts, I would definitely give you a second chance.

finneganscake your post says it all. Too little too late. You had years to develop a familial bond in the true sense but if she always felt sidelined and unaccepted why on earth would she bother now? I expect for her this means peace and quiet at last.

I've been in a similar situation although people involved are all still alive. I've dispatched with duty though. It works two ways and if I'm not awarded any then I'm jolly well not giving it out either. I'm just as worthy as anyone else and life is too short!

Ok so it basically sounds like for the past 25 years she was heartily sick of your family putting pressure on her, either obviously or subtly. And now that her MIL is no longer around she's DONE.

So I don't think that writing a letter is the most empathetic move in the world tbh as it's more "pressure" coming from your side for HER to change. Your letter will basically be (no matter how much you dont intend it) asking her to give more than she wants to. Yet again, nobody is just leaving her the Hell alone!

She has said she wants to be basically left alone now. And you're not respecting that. You want to bulldoze in and "fix" a problem that actually ain't no problem from her point of view.

No matter how much you start off the letter apologising, it will turn into a "I want the family to be closer" type of thing which is exactly the opposite to what you've been told she wants. So in other words you don't really give a fuck what she wants.

You sound like a sweet person but you are putting an idea of "family" above her.

If you want to be a good family member to her, then send her and your brother cards on special occasions with every sincere good wish for the day. And maybe in time she'll feel more relaxed and more inclined to be around. Or maybe she won't. But either way you have to leave her alone.

Yeah, the hat thing. She's just rushed herself and her family back from thousands of miles away to attend the funeral. She is standing there, blatantly hatless, and you ask her if she has a hat. Notwithstanding any slack that should be cut you (it was, after all, your mother's funeral), it's not hard to see how that would have come across not only as a dig, but also as a clear indication that you as a family are never going to get off her case and accept that she doesn't blimmin' well want to convert. I can see why it might have been the final straw for her.

No matter how much you start off the letter apologising, it will turn into a "I want the family to be closer" type of thing which is exactly the opposite to what you've been told she wants.

and this is the thing that people never grasp and never understand why once the precious moments pass you can never recover them.

It's what YOU want NOW. Presumably because it suits you now. What did SHE want as a young woman marrying into your family all those years ago? To be welcomed, accepted, treated fairly, with respect, with warmth? Did anyone ever care to find out? Were her hopes ever realised? Or has she been making do and now she's being asked to jump through yet another hoop.

Sounds like SIL will be happier not having contact with you (all) so just leave her alone. Please.

Op, my mum was the SIL in a situation which sounds identical to yours, except my parents married 40 years ago, and my paternal families Jewish community were very insular. My mum had literally no idea of what marrying into a Jewish family would entail, and my dad took it as an out from the life, leaving my grandparents bewildered and hurt. They unfortunately took it out on my mum, blamed her, and managed to alienate her in a thousand ways, mostly by expecting her to respect their culture without ever understanding hers. I now have very little contact with that side of the family, and although it's cordial and affectionate with the surviving older generation, my dad has never really recovered his closeness to his sisters, cousins and nieces and nephews.

TLDR: the hat was probably the straw that made her feel like a literal pork pie, and there comes a time where it's too much. Talk to your DB maybe and say that you miss him, that you wish you were all able to get together now and again for a simple lunch rather than a family event, and that you'll leave it in their court.

I can't believe she making such a big thing of this. I've been with no hat loads of times at united synagogue funerals. Loads of married women don't wear hats, right or wrong. Could it be she feels you never 100% accepted her because she wasn't Jewish, and thinks by you mentioning it you were making a point? That's the most likely scenario to me I'm afraid.

I agree leave HER alone, talk to your brother, nieces nephews if that's ok with BOTH parents but basically leave her be. She's said she doesn't want contact give her what she's wanted for 25 YEARS - respect - respect her wish to be left in peace.

She got herself and her family home supporting her husband and kids. And she came from San Francisco. In two days. And got her daughter home. And you asked her about a hat?

And why is the OP writing a letter saying how much she cares, after twenty five years of doing neither?

Ok op, my brother also married out and lives in the states. Your sil obviously made a big effort to be there. I can now see why she was hurt she took it as a put down and is probably sick of feeling your disappointment and disapproval- sorry.

Sorry my mistake- just seen they were on holiday there. But same effort to come back.