Neice in a financial mess

[Twinklelittlestar1]

Hi all,

I wondered if anyone could offer any advice. My Neice is 19 and is in a mess. She is at university and recently started working part time for a sales company which pay on commission.

I've recently learned that she has accumulated a lot of debt- she is £60 over a £1000 overdraft, maxed out her credit card and has had several direct debits bounce this month.

The job she has seems ludicrous. They pay commission only and have her travelling up and down the country paying for her own travel expenses. I think she's working over 20 hours a week but earned only £70 last month! Several family members have advised her to quit but she's been told by the bosses that she's 'one of the best they've seen' and advised that soon she will be taking it in! She's so adamant that this job will work out that now she's thinking of quitting uni to do it full time! I've advised her that if she quits uni she may be liable for tuition fees and most certainly repayment of the student loan.

Lots of family are trying to get through to her, the bank have been calling her mum due to direct debits bouncing but my Neice stays out til late doing the sales job and refuses to address it!

She is being totally irresponsible and delusional and says that she doesn't want 'negative input' from anyone else. Yet the debts continue to build...

We are all so worried about her. I'm trying to offer advice without being too harsh as she may just turn against me and refuse to talk to me. My feeling now is that there is nothing I can really do while she remains this stubborn. I just dread to think what will happen to her, it's such a mess. Can you think of any way I can help?

Really? So a young person is being expected to work for below NMW - effectively extortion - and pressure applied to prevent her from leaving. If there are not sources of recourse for this, there should be.

And fuck off with your grip.

These vile cults who prey on students and single mothers need to be investigated. Meanwhile, your brother needs to sit down with her, show her the evidence you sent him, and help her compose a resignation email. He could then call her "boss" (probably another poor dupe), and tell him/her to leave his daughter the hell alone.

So a young person is being expected to work for below NMW - effectively extortion - and pressure applied to prevent her from leaving.

What pressure? Simply being persuasive isn't remotely enough.

The authorities are definitely interested in some pyramid schemes - I saw a report on the news about it last summer.

Would it help to show her a 'normal' pay slip, so she could see what it should look like and how much she should be being paid?

The authorities are definitely interested in some pyramid schemes - I saw a report on the news about it last summer.

Absolutely they are. But not as slavery. They're fraudulent, usually, and involve a wide range of other legal problems. But not slavery, and to claim that trivialises and minimises the experiences of people who are suffering.

What are her parents doing? Have they pointed out she's earning 87p a hour? She'd get similar pay in a sweat shop, at least that's a real job.

Sure she's technically an adult, but clearly a very naive one.

To spell it out...

Minimum wage legislation doesn't apply to people who are self-employed. Many people working to start businesses pay themselves hugely below NMW, either because they are convinced that it will all pay off later ("sweat equity") or because they are taking payment in other forms or because they are unwise. Pyramid schemes are always structured as independent small businesses in a network, so whoever the sucker sorry victim sorry mark sorry entrepreneur is working for, it isn't the crooks sorry scum sorry scam sorry MLM company. So talk about minimum wage and slavery and the rest is just silly: there is no possible relationship which could make such allegations stick. They've been offered a business plan which is crazy, and probably fraudulent, and certainly misguided, but they are from the law's perspective entirely responsible for their own working conditions.

The victim here needs an intervention, and will have been talked into believing that riches are just around the corner, jealousy and negativity makes you untrustworthy, etc, etc. But don't get bogged down in spurious legal theories, as they simply aren't relevant.

I have had a family member end up working for a branch of Credico and all I can say is please get her out of that company as soon as possible!

It's scary how quickly these bosses can effectively brainwash people into thinking they are going to be raking it v quickly. So many promises of management roles and huge cheques if you think positive and follow their rules. None of it ever materialises!

thedevilcorp.wordpress.com/tag/credico-scam/

Everybody who has or is thinking of a job like this should read this link!!!!!!!

If she really cannot cope financially with her debt then suggest that she contacts Step change or another free debt charity to see if they can give her some advice. If she explains to them about her job they may well be able to talk some sense into her plus help her with some debt advice.

In fairness Bolograph, the OP didn't mention anything about self-employment - it implied that this was an employed post. So in that case things like NMW would have been relevant.

I mentioned slavery laws only because I saw a video from the Home Office website which said that modern slavery comes in unexpected forms and is much more prevalent than we think, so although I was clutching at straws I was certainly not trying to make light of those living in conditions of slavery. I am the last person who would want to do that.

Having seen my friend spend years of her life working for free for this cultish organisation (probably still is- I think she also married another member) and not really make the most of the exceptional talents she had, I agree wholeheartedly that an intervention is in order.

Correction - friend's organisation was Landmark, not the one above.

the OP didn't mention anything about self-employment

No, but (a) most people aren't party to their nieces' precise tax and employment status and (b) it is unheard of for pyramid schemes to employ their victims, for all the reasons you imply: it would engage a whole host of legislation which would bring down the whole edifice.

The victims of MLM schemes are notionally, or more accurate actually, self-employed. The issue of tax and NI is unlikely to arise as most of them don't make any money; there are people making tiny profits while employed in other jobs such that their MLM income is notionally taxable, but as with eBay trading the Revenue are only interested if you are seen to be taking the piss, and MLM victims rarely make enough to get on the radar.

Many people don't understand the difference between turnover, operating profit and actual profit, never mind the tax implications in the unlikely event of your making money, and pyramid schemes (as someone implied upthread) prey on this. If you have been brought up in a household where people are in PAYE salaried employment, where tax and more to the point cost of sale is a foreign concept, it is very easy to confuse selling some stuff for £100 with taking home £100 you can use to buy £100 worth of food. Sharks prey on this ignorance.

I. Have a friend who every now and then let's herself get roped into these things because every time she comes across a new pyramid scheme company she happily accepts their one-sided info she's hooked. She attends their seminars and sucks it all in. As soon as someone says it's another pyramid scheme she denies it, but then comes the clinker, she always asks if we would like to join her sales team. Usually joining the sales team requires us to buy our own sample bottles, or paying for the privilege somehow and I believe this is how they rope you in.

On facebook the other day she was selling a pyramid company's game where apparently she earns commission from people who purchase the game, but she had to pay £6 for the game herself in order for this to work. It's just insane. One of the biggest pyramid schemes that she's been well and truly sucked into is Momentis. One time she had to buy a cream for £50 to use as a sample, that was a while ago but she tried to sell it in a beauticians and got banned from the shop.

I've tried talking sense into her on numerous occasions but it's no use. They have her right where they want her.

I cannot believe that people are still being duped into this MLM rubbish - every day on my fb there are posts from unscrupulous women # nonsense. Be the boss, work from home, boss babe crap crap crap but everyday they have replies from women saying pm me I want more details it drives me crazy how can people be this naive ? I agree with an intervention - good luck .

Parsley I got sucked in once and I paid a one off fee of £14, this was back before everyone was online. I can't remember the name of the 'company', but I got out of it as soon as I realised I was being had.

My friend who is a Momentis 'rep' keeps telling me that its not a pyramid scheme because they have all these very successful people. I always say yes of course they have very successful people because they want to rope you in.

Actually Momentis are very clever, I've noticed they tend to have people who already own successful beauticians flogging this dream to people.

Sorry beauty parlours

Jeez I'm a beauty therapist I've had a lucky escape although I remember one person trying to recruit me when I was sleep deprived new mum she was so persistent and I thought she was being friendly. She hounded me down at baby music group !

I did have a friend try to recruit me to 'Women Empowering Women', riches would flow to me...but first of all I would need to send her £1000!
Then again, she also wanted me to join her in walking over hot coals....

Unsurprisingly, I did neither!