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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why is the only acceptable level none?

49 replies

YetanotherAnonymousquestion · 31/05/2016 18:30

Humour me. Why does everyone say that. What does it even mean?

Why is good most of the time not good enough to work on the rest?

I am so soooo close to the end but then I have moments when I think I can't do it.

I'm not happy but do I owe it to everyone that I/we should work on that?

Why does abuse mean it's not fixable?

I am such a useless fucking ditherer.

OP posts:
CantGetYouOutOfMyHead · 31/05/2016 21:47

Because uncertainty is a terrible and corrosive existence.

LadyStarkOfWinterfell · 31/05/2016 21:48

Because abuse has real and horrible affects on families, even a little bit of it. When you're with an abusive partner they can be lovely 99% of the time but you're always waiting for the other shoe to drop because you know what they can do.
It causes a trauma response that can be felt for years after the relationship has ended if any of the triggers happen to be felt by the victim.
The only acceptable level is none because domestic abuse is so very, very harmful.

PeppermintPasty · 31/05/2016 22:29

Bertie I feel the urge to tell you that you are fab. Always on point.

BertieBotts · 31/05/2016 22:35

Flowers Don't be sad, OP, get angry. You do deserve better and you can change things.

The atmosphere in an abusive household is completely different to the atmosphere in a supportive one. Once you see (or perhaps once you feel) the difference it's so clear. The only acceptable level of abuse is none.

I know "How it should be" can feel like a fairytale or like it's too much to expect or perhaps that even one thing on that list would be wonderful and that is because your perspective is out when you're in that situation. I know that because I was there, too. I used to wonder what made people's husbands so perfect that they would do little thoughtful things for their wives whereas mine barely seemed to know me at all. It just wasn't right.

I used to think back to an earlier relationship, which was unhealthy, but not abusive, and recall the way that my ex had once turned around in bed and accidentally hit me with his elbow, and he had laughed in a nervous, self-deprecating way and sort of said "Oh no!" at the same time and pulled me into a hug, because he cared and was sorry. I used to play it in my head on a loop and miss him, even though he was an alcoholic who slept on the floor and barely washed, even though he hurt me (emotionally) badly, I just missed that. I missed the sense of having somebody who cared, and it took me a really long time to understand that I was missing that rather than the person, but when I did it just felt lonely.

I felt lonely a lot in my abusive relationship. Again it's hard to recognise because how can you be lonely when you have this great family? But it's a lack of a real connection. A connection is what a relationship is, at its root. But abusers don't really see things that way. It's late so excuse my descent into metaphor, but in a supportive relationship it's like everyone is pulling a heavy cart on a rope and the relationship is where you join up with somebody, put both your stuff in one cart, take a rope each and the load is shared. You can believe that you're doing this in an abusive relationship but what's really happening is that the abuser isn't trying to share the load at all. For them the rope is to play tug of war. The carts are invisible and they will not and cannot be convinced that there is any other way. That's the give and take of relationships to them. Partly a game and partly a kind of war. They have an entirely different understanding of how things are, and you will never get them to see the cart, let alone the point of sharing one. You will always have this gap where you try to communicate but what each of you hears is not what the other is actually saying.

There are unhealthy relationships and there are flawed people but abuse at its root is the fundamental belief that you are just not as valid a person as he is and must be controlled, and that is why the only acceptable level of abuse is none.

BertieBotts · 31/05/2016 22:36

And thank you all for the comments Flowers

inabizzlefam · 31/05/2016 22:53

This reminds me of a film a saw where everyone behaved in a normal, civil manner, but for one night every year where everyone was "allowed" to go out and rape, torture and murder each other.
It was accepted as the norm, as letting off steam for one night a year.
If you let an abuser physically or emotionally abuse you only once, then that is once too often. They will see that you are allowing them to abuse you so will do it more and more, until it just becomes the norm.

inabizzlefam · 31/05/2016 23:06

Also don't feel bad about dithering.
My solicitor started divorce proceedings on my behalf 4 times. Every time until the last I changed my mind and backed down. He told me it was common practice for people to have 4 attempts before finally splitting, so don't feel you have "failed" in some way. You just need to feel strong, which will never happen if you have a partner who constantly undermines you.

CharlotteCollins · 31/05/2016 23:09

MNing while cycling is impressive multitasking!

YetanotherAnonymousquestion · 01/06/2016 02:21

I did stop cycling to post!
Yesterday I thought if I could just be more respectful when I disagree, if I could disagree less, if I could give him a better physical relationship, if I expected less from the relationship etc etc etc then it would all be ok. But I really think I'd be happier by myself. I just need to find the strength to go through with it. So nearly there in some ways yet the toughest bit is still to come.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 01/06/2016 06:12

It's like grief in a way. You are in the bargaining stage. Unfortunately the reality is you could do all of those things perfectly and yet he wouldn't be satisfied because it's not about you or how you behave, it's about him and his own insecurity.

PiratesHat · 01/06/2016 07:26

I am exactly in the same situation, about to leave. I know how hard it is. SadDo you have DCs?

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 01/06/2016 07:48

What's draining your strength to end it?

LadyStarkOfWinterfell · 01/06/2016 07:49

Bertie, your posts are amazing.

Yet another, there is nothing you could do that would turn him into not an a user. You don't cause his abusive behaviour. You could be his perfect stepford robot wife and he'd still find something to trigger an abusive episode because he wants and needs to abuse you.

Frizzbeol · 01/06/2016 08:40

Just have to say Bertie, your posts are amazing. I'm four months in from my third attempt to break away from a 20 year nightmare and your posts up thread have described the dynamic of my relationship perfectly. It's helping me see through the fog and clarifies in my mind that I have to see this through. Thank you.

HoundOfTheBasketballs · 01/06/2016 09:38

The leaving is the hardest part.
I remember being so scared of saying it was over, that I couldn't bring myself to say it, many many times.
But when I did, it was like flicking a switch. I'm not saying everything afterwards will be a walk in the park, far from it. You'll have bad days.
But none of those bad days will ever come close to how bad you feel now. Every time I have a bad day, I compare it to how I was feeling when we were still together, and it's nothing like it.

Be strong. Flowers

YetanotherAnonymousquestion · 01/06/2016 09:39

Hi, I say terrible "ditherer" because I already get great MN advice/support elsewhere, but I still go back over things.

This thread was perfect yesterday thanks as was reconsidering doing anything at all and not a lot of traffic at the other place. All support welcome, don't like to post details here.

Pirates and Frizzbeol, sorry you find yourself at same point. I hope Bertie and others posts have helped.

I imagine there are many who'd be helped by the posts.

OP posts:
mumoseven · 01/06/2016 10:48

When I left my ex years ago after all sorts of horror, I remember going into a dept store to buy a kettle for the shitty ( but also heavenly) little rental place I'd managed to get. I chose the kettle all by myself, it was my kettle! And I suddenly thought 'this is my life now!'
Years later I can still recall the wonder of that realisation, in the middle of a shop, clutching a kettle!

myownperson · 04/09/2016 09:38

Old thread bumped for another poster. But may be a good read for others. Lots of good responses but in particular I recommend reading BertieBotts post 31 May at 20.16

RyVeeta · 04/09/2016 11:57

For various reasons I haven't posted for a few days, but just wanted to say myown thanks for finding this, and Bertie a perfect description of the last twenty odd years.

notmyonlyname · 04/09/2016 12:45

I wish I could send a link to this thread to my cousin. She ended an abusive relationship a couple of months ago but is now back in touch with him & is minimising what happened. I'm now convinced she'll end up back with him & I've learnt there is no point trying to talk to her about it as she just talks about how much she loves him. We are very close usually (more like sisters really) but I've distanced myself as I can't watch her go through the same pain again. There was no physical violence but control, isolation & aggression & I can see it starting again. I've tried to let her know I'll be there for her but she's completely under his influence she's blaming everyone else including her Mum, me & her friends. I just hope I'm doing the right thing by backing off.

myownperson · 04/09/2016 14:24

I understand that must be frustrating. I expect the reasons are complex as to why women go back. But it must be tough for you to see.

I don't know how your cousin feels but personally not a day goes past where I don't wrestle with regrets, thinking I was responsible for how things were, I could change how I behave, the good times outweigh the bad. I love him, I miss him, the familiarity and security.

I have children, I can't just change my mind again. Whatever our relationship was I don't think it was healthy for me or them. If it wasn't for children I expect I'd try again.

Its not easy to face up to the person who you think loves you might not. Despite constant doubts I always find the right answers these days. But it has taken me a long time to get here.

I think Id maybe back off with trying to get her to see how things are for a while and just be there in a normal way, as much as is OK for you. Maybe she's not ready to hear it yet. Others might have better advice.

I don't know what the right thing to do is. I think if she ever properly "leaves" him then having supportive family will really help her to do that. But there's only so much of yourself you can give.

She might one day be very grateful that you care.

myownperson · 04/09/2016 14:25

Sorry, you didn't ask for advice. And that was long. Blush

RyVeeta · 04/09/2016 15:41

myown it's interesting reading your posts, I am less than a week on my own and it's been a strange mix of okay and grim. I feel traitorous and wracked with guilt, but I also know, deep down that I can't keep going on the way I have and I can't spend another 20 years being a servant and complying with whims, coping with mood changes that are sometimes hourly, coping with low level abuse, but constantly. As I said, berties's post is a pretty accurate description of a lot of my life. I cried in tesco yesterday because I went to grab him something, and he's not at home. I felt relieved yesterday afternoon because I could hoover without permission. It's a very odd mix and I can see why people go back. I have adult children with additional needs though and I am trying to guide my younger dd as I've seen her respond in the way that I do rather than stand up for herself. Life beyond is very scary, more so than I thought it would be.

myownperson · 04/09/2016 19:39

Ah RyVeeta one week is no time at all. Understandable that your feelings are a bit all over the place. It's a huge change but from what you describe it sounds like it will definitely be a change for the better.

I can see why things look scary. I have been separated for 2 months now, after nearly 20 years. Sometimes it's exciting to have autonomy in my life and sometimes I find myself frozen in fear that I can't do it alone. The ups and downs continue but it gets easier bit by bit.

I posted in a very happy moment and those feelings are great to cling on to. If you have a good day or moment maybe write it down do you can refer back to it.

Don't feel bad that you aren't finding things easy.
Just because it was the right thing to do and it was your decision doesn't mean you aren't going to feel very sad.

Flowers
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