I have a DH problem, how do I deal with it?

[StrictlyMumDancing]

There are some issues surrounding ILs. PILs are generally good GPs and I trust them to have my DC without issue. We've bumped up against each other, but generally we rub along ok. They do have history of putting their wishes ahead of the DC at times but never in an endangering way.

But when BIL and wife come to town, and for a short while after, its a completely different story. Suddenly our DC aren't good enough, there's questioning on my (yes, just my) parenting despite the fact DC behave better for me and DH than for them , DC are blamed for upsetting BIL and wife.

It came to a head with DH after Christmas, even he was at his DMs assertion that our DC had made BIL ill nothing to do with copious amounts of red wine being drunk and him literally swinging the DC around of course. DH promised me we would manage any larger family situation so a repeat would never happen again. We've been aware of an impending visit so we've had many chats about appropriate boundaries with all the ILs, very short visits, avoiding visits at trigger times for DD, etc. All agreed, all fine.

Then MIL calls. We've been allocated a time slot at a time she knows is bad for us. DH says yes instantly, I straight away shout 'NO its not OK'. MIL starts whining at DH about it being the only time BIL can make (they're down for a week) and it'll be ok because its the school holidays and we don't have to stay more than a few hours. DH looks at me whilst I'm shaking my head and says 'yes Mum, no problems'. Basically rather than explain to his DM why their attitude when BIL is around is not acceptable and despite it likely causing DD a complete meltdown that will impact on DS, he just can't say no to her.

We've spent the last few days arguing. I've told him how upset I am that he is yet again putting MILs wishes over what is best for our DC, and that there are other options available to see them at times that suit everyone better. He agrees with me, but then constantly gives in to MIL (and she's not overly whiny TBF, he just rolls over).

In this situation I've told DH that its not happening and he either rearranges it or I will, and I won't hold back in telling them precisely why we need controls in place at these times. Nor do I care if they get upset by it. Now I feel like the only way I'm going to get anyone to put the DCs first is by being a mega bitch. How the hell do I get DH to learn to say no to his DM?

I've had this situation myself but with my own family. Eldest dd (8) has asd/spd/anxiety and as such weekends tend to be hell of earth as after a full week of school she's completely overwhelmed/overstimulated and it manifests itself by her misbehaving/acting silly/being (what looks like) purposefully naughty all of which gather momentum until we have epic meltdowns ending in tears.

The busier the place the worse she struggles. We used to always go to my dp's on a Saturday along with db, dsil, dn plus 2 other dn's, so along with us 4 there would be 11 people crammed into a small living room. Dad tends to wind kids up as does my db, plus the latter is extremely loud (and obnoxious and thinks he knows better ). It got to a stage where dd was having 2/3 meltdowns whilst we were there reaulting in her sitting on the stairs by herself in tears because she couldn't cope, it all came to a head at a birthday party when db wound daughter up to a point where he pushed her into a meltdown (despite dm, dsil and myself) telling him to stop and then he basically threw a tantrum when I told him he was out of order (apparently he worked with kids with asd so he knows what that are like 🤔).

Anyways after that we said no more visiting when the house is full, it's not fair on dd nor us as we were being unfairly judged. Dm wasn't happy at all, said how it would be unfair to db/dsil/dn to not see our kids so I pointed out they were more than welcome to arrange to meet up/come see us-they only live around the corner to us, dm's house is across the city. But dm being who she is told them I was keeping kids away from them because of the words exchanged at the party, once I got wind of this I messaged db to tell him that actually it had nothing to do with the party and everything to do with my child struggling and me not knowingly setting her up for meltdowns. Family aren't overly pleased but were told tough I do the best by my child no one else and it doesn't matter if they agree.

In your shoes I'd send dh by himself, if he insists on taking the kids let him-he will know what it's like to deal with it then and I bet you he quite quickly tells pil what doesn't work in future.

I agree with PP, you have a few options here.

1. You simply say that doesn't work for us, and you take DD out somewhere else that day (where she won't be thrown around and get overexcited)

1. You let DH take her and deal with the fallout, and you tell him you don't want to hear a single word about it. If you do this, MIL will say DD has been perfectly behaved all day, so it looks like you are the problem.

You are coming over as a bit over rigid to be honest, but maybe it's just hard to explain on MN what DDs issues are?

strictly read back through your posts. Wh are you letting another adult dictate what happens in your family?

If it genuinly doesn't work for you and dd then it doesn't happen. If your Dh is struggling with you having a back bone then that's his problem alone.

I would not take my child any where like you discribe snd I would not be using her 'behaviour' as an excuse. She is a child. They are not robots

shooting thank you so much for that. Glad to know I'm not alone. There's definitely more of an issue when the house is fuller than when its just PILs, hence BIL and family's visit being something we want to manage. DD is definitely judged harshly by them, when they cause a lot of the problem with her. I don't think its fair on her at all let alone us. Maybe I should encourage DH to talk to BIL alone, that way we will find out whether its him or MIL.

If they're very rigid on Saturday being the only time then DH can go on his own. I'll encourage this as he should go and meet the baby, and then he can spend as long as he likes there. The kids and I can do our usual thing or something a bit more fun instead. I appreciate I seem rigid on this, and our terming it 'another Christmas' makes it seem like a one off event, but really this has been years in the making.

The fact he is being summoned at a specific time is bizzare!

For that alone if be extremely busy and unable to attend. I don't think your ridged at all I think your actually being quiet passive.

It's really hard to see how bad things have become and how behaviours become to be expected untill you step out of the show. The rest of Dh family all still dance to mils tune because they are scared and manipulated b the 'horrific' fall out they think will happen.

I'm so glad I don't do that any more

Kimono It is really weird isn't it? Don't get me wrong, my own family are completely batshit crazy special in their own ways so I sometimes struggle to see what's normal. No one questioned this so I put it to one side. I also put the nastiness towards me to one side to because they aren't required by law to like me. Its only now the DC are about I'm seeing it as being as nuts as it sounds. Its also making me very resentful of BIL and wife, although I'm not sure how much is down to them.

DH and BIL don't really have a relationship outside of MIL either which has only recently hit me too. Its not even like they've argued or anything, and possibly BIL plays this role better than DH. He won't contact us at all except through her. Often asks when she has the DC so he can see them even if just via web chat, but he won't even text DH to ask after them or reply to DH if he calls/texts.

I've just jumped out of the crazy firepan and into the mental fire haven't I?

Strictly no one questions it because it's so utterly normal to them. They can see 'bad' behaviour but it's over looked as a personality trait. They are not 'nasty' all the time so when they are its forgiven easily and quickly otherwise there is a big fall out and tears.

It sounds like BIL and your Dh have been played off each other for a long time ( eg blaming your child because BIL was ill) I wouldn't even try and bridge over that gap, the damage there will be long done. It's very telling that he goes through his mother to speak to his own brother. Divide and conquer and all that..

I've gone NC with mil and DC have very low (barley nothing) contact because I don't want them thinking this behaviour is normal and to be accepted. I've seen mil emotionally blackmail my nephew and BIL didn't even blink an eye. That's something that will never happen with my DC. Ever.

You honestly don't have to go there on Saturday. Stick to what you already discussed with Dh regardless what he is saying now because it will only set a precedent that your opinion counts for nothing.

Think really hard about how far you are prepared to go with this and if you are prepared to put up with it for years to come.

Toxic parents is a fab book and you can down load it. Real eye opener for me

Well I don't know what DH said, but the Saturday issue has been smoothed over without much fuss. Maybe it was the shock of DH finally saying no or because FIL was there and is a calmer influence on MIL (plus he is well aware I'm a bit like the Incredible Hulk, and like the Hulk I'm always angry so he probably doesn't think its a good idea to poke me). Or possibly that they genuinely want all their GC together so for once compromise seemed like the better option.

We have some new timeslots that suit a lot better, multiple times slots in fact. I've even been invited over on my own with the kids to see MIL beforehand but DH said I probably wouldn't given my current headache. He can say no off his own back apparently, though I suspect that's also more because he knows I may speak my mind if she tries any crap on me. Its still controlled timeslotting, but I'd like my DC to meet their cousin so I'll leave it for now.

DH has found out that BIL and wife have gone out of their way to fit visits in with other family just leaving us with whatever was left. Whether its their disregard for us or if MIL has said we will be happy to fit in around them so don't worry I don't know. The penny didn't drop about how rude that was with him until I gave him the face. I've probably got more battles to come with this in the future.

Think I'm going to have to invest in the Toxic Parents book too, I'm not sure I want this battle for every time wider family visit. I think DH is just hoping DDs operation will magically solve everything. It may solve her behavioural issues, but its not going to change the golden boy dynamic with BIL.

ARRRGGGGHHHH I am going to kill DH.

AFAIK we were due to go round later today. I'd take the DC for dinner and he'd come meet us. That way the DC are entertained by food for a while and there's not much time for them to get too wound up afterwards before we all headed home. Perfect for DC, shouldn't foster too much ill feeling between anyone and some family time is had.

So as he leaves today I say to DH that if the kids kick off or anything is said I'll leave, maybe just to meet him at the station and go back. He looks at me confused and says 'oh no, you're going round after lunch for the afternoon'. No I'm fricking not, there's no way I'm going into that situation without some remote back up. I asked him why, after all our conversations where we realised they were sniping at me and the DC but not him and given he knows full well I've lost my patience with them for it, did he think that was a good thing to agree too. 'Mum said that's what she wanted'. Seriously???

Well he explains to his mother that you're coming round later, his mistake, sorry.

Within your earshot.

And you go round later, not in the afternoon.

You can't change them. You can change how you react, and what you expose your children to.

StrictlyMumDancing

Your DHs own inertia when it comes to his family of origin is simply hurting him as well as his own family unit. Unfortunately he cannot properly see that mainly because it is too painful for him to face. He would rather stay in denial of it all.

This has also come about because his own family of origin is deeply dysfunctional. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; his is scapegoat with his brother, your BIL, being most favoured. Their mother is likely to be the driving force behind all this and her H has gone along with it out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. This dynamic has been going on for a long time and certainly predates you.

I would keep well away from all his family, you do not have to expose your children to this dysfunction. What sort of message does it send them to have their dad keep on saying yes to his mother all the time at your overall expense?.

Do read Toxic Inlaws written by Susan Forward.

Why not invite them to visit you instead? At a time more convenient.

"Maybe I should encourage DH to talk to BIL alone, that way we will find out whether its him or MIL".

I think if that conversation took place your DH would come off worse because his brother will have an entirely different outlook on things and his own childhood. He could well accuse your DH of being over sensitive and over reacting.

I would also think that due to his familial conditioning he finds it almost impossible to say no to anyone.

Its MIL who is the main instigator behind all this and her H has gone along with the dysfunction as a bystander as well. He has also failed his now adult children abjectly here.

DH has been apologising lots and saying it'll never happen again. I don't believe him in the slightest. He has form for apologising and then not following through on a few things. I'm guessing that's all part of this conditioning.

MIL has been calling, but I've stood my ground. Thankfully I had some other commitments so couldn't go round anyway. My own DF keeps telling me to just rise above it, but he insisted my DM did that with PGM and all that got was my DM very ill (not to mention that its not fair that its always the women who are meant to take these barbs, DF never took it from his PILs )

I've told DH its not fair on any of us what he's doing, and he can't expect happy families if he keeps brushing other people's feelings aside. Its not fair that not upsetting his mum means he's happy to throw the DC and me under the bus, which means that his mum also gets upset because then I say no. I really don't care that she's upset I wont give in to her but I thought he might. I've also said that he won't be putting me in this position again, because whilst he shows no regards for our feelings then I am not going to show any for his so I will tell them when they're being rude arseholes. I'd rather my kids saw me being obstinate and having their backs than to think that you have to take crap from people just because they're related to you and of course I'll love this attitude when they're teenagers and pulling this trick on me.

attila you're right on the BIL thing. DH did randomly reach out to BIL a few days back on an unrelated matter, its been ignored again. BIL is clearly happy with communication only through MIL.

happen they have an open invite anyway, but they were invited again. Wasn't possible of course for a variety of non reasons such as our house is too small (perfectly fine for a short visit) and travelling is hard with a small baby (though travelling is happening to other people).

penguins I need to learn to react differently. Something tells me I'm not going to be able to until I explode first.

DH looks at me whilst I'm shaking my head and says 'yes Mum, no problems'.

I'd go fucking nuts if my husband did that to me.