How do you know if someone is abusing you or if they're right?

[OnceThereWasThisGirlWho]

I'm in very lonely and difficult position where I only have one friend I see day to day. I am very depressed and struggle with past experiences and finding it harder and harder to pretend to be fine. I am seeking help etc.

But he is insisiting his version of reality is true and calling me abusive for standing up to him about it. I think its abusive of him to try to force me to believe a "reality" that I dont think fits with the evidence. He's insisting that stuff where people have hurt me is my fault. Im so confused cos it's actually earning some self-respect and standing up for myself that has helped me go on, and feel a little better in life. I used to just try to please everyone and got walked all over and abused.

He thinks I am bonkers for thinking I have to pretend to be ok in front of other peope so they like me and don't drop me as a friend. He reckons thats not true at all cos it isnt for him. But people have actaully said to me that becaue I am upset often, struggles ongoing, that rightly or wrongly people lose interest and dont care. I mean, you have to be fun to be around, yeh? But he insists this isn' true and that people aren't like that. But he thinks I am actually a horrible bitch pushing them away by being angry. He's using me being upset and angry at him blaming me as evidence that I am irrationally angry, and thus that I must do that do others, so they dont give a fuck about me.

(Actually I do find it confusing how people care about some people but not others and I dont understand their reasoning, but it seems to relate to popularity rather than any objective aspect of the situation. And I've seen others scapegoated, too.)

I feel very, very alone. I also feel like I' somehow unworthy and its all always my fault, and no matter how hard I try I'm never good enough. I have been having nightmares about this sort of thing, waking up screaming. I would describe myself as traumatised due to life expereinces that left me overwhlemed, horrified, helpless etc. I cant talk about it to most people cos I feel like such a twat and like im making a fuss and should just be fine, and am terrified of people calling me attention seeking or overeacting cos that happened when i was younger and used to freely ask for support.

I'm terrified im either hallucinating or being stitched up here. Im so frightened, and in so much pain, please be very gentle, I am only trying to understand.

Thanks for the replies. Keep meaning to reply but sort of shutting off cos I'm trying not to think about it all, then I forget. Still having weird dreams and nightmares.

I'm pretty sure people haven't reacted the way they have based on me being annoyed at them. For the crucial reason me being annoyed (where it has happened) has come about as a result of their actions.

However... I have noticed that people in general often seem to get muddled up about cause and effect. People will say "Oh ho! So and so did xyz" but fail to acknowledge it was a reaction to abc thing they did, and in fact will use xyz reaction as an excuse for abc behaviour. They generally get everyone primed in advance so the other person is pre-discredited too. (Obvs abc thing doesn't necessarily excuse xyz reaction, but it's the way it's completely discounted and cause and effect switched around that is puzzling.) This also seems to be largely based on popularity - who's view will be automatically endorsed? (Gosh I sound clinical, am not irl, promise!)

But anyway I was giving him examples, including one friend who actually (years) later explained his behaviour and apologised. He basically couldn't cope with me being mental and just sort of shut off but not in a clear way and sort of briefly intermittent which led to some awful/weird situations where he appeared to be a complete bastard. And I'd really trusted him and been a good friend to him (by his reckoning!) so was and at the time. I think this is pretty much it for the other scenarios too, except one that involves a male friend cutting out female friends due to insecure new partner. Which I brought up but apparently no i'm a horrible bitch and apart from that he wouldn't actually engage with anything I said. He finished up by saying I needed to admit I had an incurable personality disorder.

I did used to be much more open about asking for support but I just didn't know how people were/are about mental health. I was always a bit mothery type so into looking after people and assumed other nice people were the same. That sounds wrong... I mean, if you actually ask for help it puts people on the spot so more likely to shut off and go the other way. Plus idiots spreading misinformation which made people judge me (ie. claiming I wasn't trying to get professional help and encouraging exaggerated ideas about how much intervention the system offers, plus a couple of people who were just assholes and enjoyed sticking the boot in). I tend to keep things fairly under wraps now but it is so helpful to have a good friend or two to talk things over with (it's especially hard to find peope who 'get' my way of thinking; I miss my friend who used to start discussing political theory around madness and the role of psychiatry in society... helped with context... ahhh. Also after attending a meeting with head of CMHT with me, following yet another assessment, he understood all the misdirection and obfuscation... was so nice tht someone else could see what was making me so frustrated...).

I must admit I don't fully understand the reasons why different people get treated differently. Even if my friend was right and I was awful, why have other peope been treated sympathetically when doing unpleasant things? (such as person I originally only met when she was horribly pissed at parties and physically attacking people - but she's tiny so they sort of ignored it - but this happened repeatedly). Obviosuly if someone is going of the rails it's good to to try to help them but the criteria for who is helped seems odd. I think it might be something to do with acceptable ways of going off the rails - getting horribly pissed and being a dick seems to be ok, even though you could just not try to deal with your problems by drinking... whereas being actually depressed or crying or wanting to talk about something bothering you, when you cant actually help feeling shitty, is somehow worse.

But anyway, I try to keep it under wraps, but you end up at a point where you cannot adequately express that you need some support or need to talk, because you are so used to putting a mask on it's almost automatic...

After your abusive relationship were in contact with Womens Aid?
Did you do the Freedom Programme?
If not then contact them. They will be able to point in the direction of local support services.
It takes many years to recover from an abusive relationship.
And I use the word 'recover' only because I can't think of another word.
The Freedom Programme will help you with all sorts of aspects of your life spent with abuser. You will also meet many other women who have been through what you have.

They will also be able to tell you if your 'friend' is being abusive or not.
I could be way off base here but rape crisis might be able to help as well.
They can offer counselling so you don't have to wait for NHS appointments.
All worth a try?
I'm sorry you are in this situation and I hope you get some help soon.

Standing in two realities sounds very familiar and I would say you were about half way through therapy and need to go and have more sessions.

Basically you are right: you have experienced things others haven't. Your experiences have made you construct a belief system that helped when you were on the receiving end of abuse but is not needed any more. This is why you are hypervigilant and notice things others don't - you have learnt to keep a close eye on body language to watch out for signs of oncoming abuse.

However, after some therapy you realise that not everyone lives like this (those that haven't been abused/traumatised and those that have completed long therapy). So part of you is starting to understand what life is like when you don't have your belief system and hypervigilance operating. The belief system usually takes the form of you finding ways to explain how abuse happened to you and how you can stop it recurring eg it's my fault, if I just act nicer/happier/better it won't happen to me. This is false because abuse happens because the abuser wants it to, not because the victim invites it. It gets confusing because abusers learn to recognise a victim of abuse by their language (you say sorry a lot for example) and body language (you might flinch or hold your arms around you etc).

You are therefore about half way through the recovery process needed after your experiences of abuse and trauma. I would recommend you find a very qualified counsellor with experience of childhood abuse/neglect and use them to ask the questions you have. They will guide you through the change which can feel every destabilising. Because at the moment you don't know what to believe - your old belief system or the new way of thinking - and it's making you very wobbly.

You can ask for help with the friendship from a counsellor who will talk you through what may be happening and give you advice on how to handle it.

Just to add unfortunately (or fortunately for them) many will not understand your worries because they simply have no idea what it's like to be traumatised/abused and have the issues you have. They aren't being mean or cruel necessarily, just they don't have the tools to understand it. So it's fine to let them know you are having mental health issues which they should respect but a bit too much to think they'll understand the ins and outs of it. So talk to friends but they aren't trained counsellors so may feel they aren't equipped to help you.

I'm having someone regularly minimise my reality at the moment, always telling me what I saw, felt and experienced was wrong. It's horrible. I feel for you, OP. I wish I could let it all wash over me. Maybe the key is not caring at all.

It makes me think of that quote about depression being not caring at all and anxiety being caring too much, and having both at the same time is torture. That's my truth. It's exhausting.

Wishing you well

It sounds like you've unfortunately been treated badly by partners and friends. They are responsible for their behaviour - it's not your fault - and your challenge is to keep telling yourself that, while also learning how to recognise unhealthy relationships and set stronger boundaries to protect yourself. In other ways, you're not responsible for how other people treat you, but you can make choices not to put up with bad treatment, and to seek out people who treat you well instead of people who treat you badly. It does sound like you have mental health issues and would very much benefit from professional help (FWIW I think you could do with proper psychotherapy and CBT by itself wouldn't be enough) but that doesn't mean there is something "wrong" with you and that you're a bad or defective person.

Did you have toxic or abusive parents, or any traumatic experiences in childhood? I don't mean to go to far into "armchair psychologist" territory, but it would go some way towards explaining how you feel. If you did have toxic parents and/or experienced abuse growing up, I suggest you read the Stately Homes thread and maybe check out NAPAC - they have a helpline and support groups.

I also agree with the PP who mentioned the Freedom Programme. If you haven't done it yet, I'm sure it would be helpful.

I re-read your post and wanted to add that it sounds like you might have PTSD. Have your GP or therapist ever mentioned that?
There is some useful info on treatment options and sources of support here:
www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/
For example they mention Assist Trauma Care who have a helpline.

Thanks.

My GP has suggested PTSD but the criteria for diagnosis are very specific and I don't match them. Well, I don't match the bonkers "type of trauma" one. I did not suffer childhood abuse, although there were some issues, at home and at school. I can see how all this developed, but the NHS don't take it seriously. They just say "BPD" and offer watered-down little chats about DBT skills for "managing distress" (no healing on offer for BPD, just "managing"...).

But anyway, I can see how it's all developed. So some stuff I can remind/reassure myself about; adult and inner child type stuff. But other things the "adult" part doesn't understand so can't reassure the "child", iyswim.

Part of the problem is that the things that most traumatised me (it seems) happened after realising I needed help, was an adult etc. So the issues I went to the GP with in late teens are sort of "layer 1" (actually by the time I sought help was possibly on layers 2-4). Then next "layer" - a big one this - is attempting to seek help and counselling and getting labelled an attention seeking waste of space and not helped (as with the care of people in general, I'd also naievely vastly overestimated MH services!). Including homelessness isssues where I wasn't entitled to emergency accomodation because I "wasn't mentally ill", oh and getting into first abusive relationship. Oh and the delight of police/courts/cells when in distress because the hospital didn't give a shit so the cops would look after you til the crisis team came to say they needn't bother (some were so kind). I have a criminal record to, instigated by the MH services, legally is a house of cards but had crappy sleazy solicitor... a whole other story tbh, but even cops seemed frustrated and bemused at situation and the CPS's bizarre criteria of what is "in the public interest" to prosecute (guy who tried to strangle my boyfriend in front of me didn't even get arrested! Weirdly inconsistent policing there too.) This was all fucking terrifying, sickening, confusing - I was 19/20 and just wanted to have a safe place to live and some support with dealing with the pain inside.

Well anyway I sort of scraped by and had some fun amongst the rough times, but when life finally seemed stable and safe, and I was happy, I broke down (mid 20's). That's when I thought I was surrounded by loving caring people but not in the way I imagined.

So I am kind of traumatised in a way but due to complex nature of it it doesn't quite tick boxes for treatment, and worse, it does kind of implicate the mental health services because I found my dealings with them terrifying and hugely contributing to the problem. Like trying to negotiate with an abuser (still is tbh). I'm ok with saying that stuff happened in a different area, years ago, not current team, blah blah, but they just won't accept it. But also private therapists might not believe me or understand. Especially as they need a contact in the NHS to report to if they think you need support (which last therapist did and stopped believeing me that I couldn't get any).

I've also had a load of experiences (am better at boundaries now) that left me feeling weirdly violated and frighteningly powerless. Eg. creepy solicitor talking about how he had read all my medical records. And lots of sex incidents where to be fair the bloke would have stopped but I didn't know how to say no. (Plus I've never even lived with a partner and still been utterly cowed by them - total doormat because everyone just encouraged me to try to please!) And you know what? I'm fucking livid that there was no-one, even when I sought psychological help, who could explain the basics of consent, boundaries etc and just say, your partner is a tit, and be basically kind to me. Also at how much life has been lost trying to cope without support and the way things have compounded each other, when I kept trying to do the right thing and be responsible seeking help etc (I'm also not in any debt and always pay rent on time, dont get stupidly drunk, generally try to look after self, etc). I'm not sure if I'm "allowed" to be angry by society's standards or therapist standards... certainly the NHS ones would call it "inappropriate anger"... But I think I am allowed to be angry! Just not sure how to deal with it. Mnd most of the time just feel hopeless, not angry. I do try really hard to be positive and do stuff, but am not really managing.

Sorry, Mena to say as well that I don't fit inot the typical abuser/victim scenario. Haven't lived with partners, have no DC etc. Generlly nonviolent but has escalated to violence with a couple of blokes. Its my own fault for not walking away sooner, really.

I've only had a couple of LTRs and longest was 3.5 yrs so not long. Other men have been really shitty and actually abusive on occasions to me... one in particular is bonkers scenario but also makes my skin crawl in hindsight and feel so stupid... but usually they dump me first so I don't know if it counts. Am actively avoiding relationships now.

Also with things being "learnt" from child abuse... now redundant coping mechanisms etc. Well I may have had very low self esteem but any inner thoughts or feelings have only been confirmed as an adult. Plus most of the "wrong" stuff I've learnt has been in adulthood, after seeking help. So for example, I have trust issues... but I ddn't grow up with them, they developed after being repeatedly hurt. So it gets confusing and again doesn't seem to properly fit into the trauma narrative.

*meant to say

OP a few things your posts have made me think of:

PTSD diagnosis doesn't really have a "type of trauma" criteria, there just has to have been trauma, which you say you have experienced.

BPD is no different to many MH problems in the lack of a "cure". Most MH problems are managed rather than cured and DBT imo is a helpful tool for anyone dealing with the kind of difficulties you describe, even if it's just the working through the worksheets part of it.

The lovely women on the MH boards may well be able to offer you some better advice, have you posted on there?

If you think this man is trying to control you, you don't have to have anything to do with him any more. If he is adversely affecting your mental health in the way you describe, you're better off without the bellend.

Ah thanks. Have just looked up the criteria for PTSD and it's only the DSM that has a "subjective stressor" criteria. The ICD used in UK doesn't have this. However, complex trauma doesn't seem to be very recognised in mental helth services (I don't know about the "one -off event type").

DBT is suppsed to comcine group skills sessions, individual therapy, and phone coaching. Crucially, it comprises of 4 stages, with the first stage being the one to reduce life-threatening behaviours and achieve stability so the person can actually get through the later stages where trauma is addressed. What I meant by no "healing" for BPD within the NHS is the fact that only stage 1 DBT is offered (and a very watered down version of that). So not the bit that actually addresses past trauma.

I think I'm going to look for another private therapist. Will ask for recommendations at local MH charity place - they seemed to get the NHS limitations and be quite antipsychiatry so may be best for finding someone who understands!

I suppose the reason I posted in relationships was because I thought it was the place where posters would be most likely to have really questioned all this and know the answer to my OP.