My marriage has a dead heart

[sukiyaki]

Regular poster, NC'ed for this.

DH and I have been together for 14 years, married for 11 and we have two kids aged 8 and 5. I come from a background of divorce, step-parents and step-siblings. I purposely didn't marry until I was in my 30s and I was wary of marriage and continue to be terrified of failure (which, tbh, I'm still dealing with 35 years after my parents' marriage failed).

The problem is that DH have really drifted apart. We very rarely have sex (maybe five or six times a year), and when we do its not great. He's rather prudish and likes plain vanilla sex, whereas I crave something more adventurous and having had that with previous partners I know exactly what I'm missing. In the early days of our relationship he made an effort on this front - now he doesn't bother. And I've been rebuffed by him so many times sexually that for my own self-preservation I don't initiate things any more. We sleep in separate rooms and have done since I was pregnant with our second DC.

In terms of the rest of our life I'd say we're pretty happy in that we have two great kids, a lovely home, we're financially secure, we have nice holidays, we get on with our families, we have good friends locally and a social life - so on the surface its all hunky dory. But underneath its just dead. We sit in separate rooms in the evening and watch different things on TV. We don't touch or kiss or hug or anything very much. We live like brother and sister. I really, really don't want to split up and I know he doesn't either, but our marriage, when I'm honest with myself and face up to it (which is rarely), is a sham and I just don't know what to do. I'm completely financially dependent on him and would struggle to find well-paid work now. I used to earn good money before we had kids, but I haven't worked for eight years.

WTF shall I do? I'm thinking of trying to book some marriage counselling just for me. I honestly don't know if its salvageable. I think we love each other, but we're not 'in love' any more, and I'm not sure if we can get those feelings back or find a way forward without them.

I've been where you are very recently. Currently having counselling and realised Ive been very unhappy in my relationship. I'd spoken to dp about how I felt and said I felt like I was dying inside as I was so unhappy.

I decided I couldn't carry on like that, particularly having a toddler and knowing that we model to them how relationships are and I couldn't have her growing up like that.

So I spoke to him and said we needed to separate as I was unhappy. He asked for another chance to see if we could sort things out and I'm hoping that things are on the up now.

It was the mental connection that was missing. No conversation apart from things dc related. I couldn't bear for him to touch me and this then moved to no affection at all. Basically living like flat mates and I couldn't continue like that.

I'd rather have brought dd up on my own and worked something out with us sharing responsibility for her than continue to be as unhappy as I was.

Sorry you're going through this

minipie

Children do pick up on on-going and underlying relationship problems between parents and more so than is perhaps realised. These children (particularly I would think the eldest and they will certainly notice things as they get older) do notice that their mum and dad sit in separate rooms in the evening as well as sleeping separately.

I argue that they can be happy apart and this relationship is not at all a happy one underneath the house and holidays.

It takes two to make a marriage work and OP cannot carry this on her own. What has he done to try and fix things, he seems quite happy as he is anyway (this arrangement suits him and he can carry on gaming) and any changes he makes do not last at all long. OP cannot herself make him stop using the computer or gaming, he has to want to make such a change and for his own self. Whether an ultimatum would work is also open to debate and such can be issued only once.

I'm just going to lurk here and pick up some advice also.

How would you feel about suggesting an open marriage? It would give you the option of having other relationships to get your emotional and sexual needs met that he is unable or unwilling to meet, without being the nuclear option of selling the house and splitting up the household unit.

I am also lurking here as am in a similar situation. I was just wondering, do open marriages actually work? Does anyone know anyone in one? Personally I don't think I could struggle emotionally if my wife/partner wanted to do this but when kids are involved and you don't want to split up the family unit, perhaps it is the only option?

Completely agree he has to want to make a change, and yes in the past his changes haven't lasted - but I'm not sure if he has previously been told how serious things are, ie that OP is thinking of leaving? Ultimatum can only be used once yes, but it's worth a try before leaving, surely?

Also agree that children can pick up on undercurrents. But even if they do realise there is something not right - they probably won't realise their parent is so unhappy, or think that she should leave - they're too young for that.

I know a few couples in open marriages and they absolutely can work IF both people in the marriage are really honest about continually communicating what they want and need. I dont know that its any easier really than actually divorcing because it requires people to be really honest with themselves and put in the effort to keep everyone involved happy, but it is an option.

Children definitely do pick up on 'atmospheres' and negative 'vibes' in relationships. I remember from when I was a child my mum absolutely hated my dad. Such a toxic environment for kids to grow up in, I believe.

That was my marriage, obviously with a few nuances. I'm now on my own, a few unsuccessful flings, not the same lifestyle anymore but I would never want to return to a dead marriage. It was soul destroying and my self esteem is not fully recovered from the years of rejection. Good luck with whatever you decide.

I should add, what made me finally end it was the thought of my children being stuck in the future in situations where they are unhappy. I wanted to show them that you have control over your own destiny.

Christ so many parralels. I told him I want to split up just over a week ago. Went to our first relate yesterday. He's being really attentive etc. don't think it will change my mind. I'm sleeping in the spare room. He's pleading and doing his best. I just want to be left alone

Yes - kids do pick up on stuff

Pp- think it was Attila? What does he do for you in this relationship apart from being the money home? I know dh loves me but it's all talk and no action

Dh works incredibly hard, he's a good man, he's never called me names or hit me and he never would do. But he spends the bulk of his time at home gaming - strategy games! As one pp said jeez. He's mega stressed all the time, mental health issues, not engaged with kids, doesn't do much house work, no gardening or 'wife' work how I hate that term.

Sorry I'm a bit all over the place. I still love him but I'm dying inside and I don't want to be with him, end of. Shit

Op
I went through the exact same thoughts/feelings two years ago.I spent 6 months crying to myself,friends wondering how I could end it and desperately wished he had an affair so I had an excuse to leave.
Telling and the children was the hardest thing I have ever done(my eldest definitely knew something was wrong)
Two years on I am the happiest I have been for such a long time.The kids are fine and well adjusted to the set up.we had a very middle class style and yet even though I live in a much smaller house,I am financially much better off(my ex always spent money on himself and made me feel guilty if I went overdrawn)
I know lots of women who feel the same but prefer to be miserable rather than give up their lifestyle
I saw a counsellor on my own prior to splitting up.she made it very clear that it's ok to fall out of love with someone.this is what I needed to hear
It sounds like it's over.be brave and think really hard about your life in 2,5 or 10 years

You are defending the marriage but to me your are the one who would put the effort in to make it work but he sounds like he has checked out to me. He could also be depressed.

You need to stop thinking about financial things. Some couples who are very much in tune with each other and have great relationships do not have a lot of material possessions.

If he wanted to take the stress out of his life, he could and if you wanted to work, you could. Lots of people do.

You both need to want this.

If you don't make changes, nothing will change. It will get worse.

What do you get out of this relationship now, what keeps you married to this man? What needs of yours does he meet?

Actually, lots of things. There is the obvious stuff, like he provides very well for us and we have a very comfortable life, and then there's the fact that he trusts me and supports me in whatever I want to do. He allows me to be myself, I guess, is the best way to put it. He isn't threatened by me going out and doing stuff for myself or with friends or whatever. He'd love me to have a career again at least in part because he knows I'm bored and would be happier if I could find something I wanted to do.

As for how he shows he loves me - he takes care of me - and not in a controlling way. We're very good partners - when the shit hits the fan we're a really good team. I know he has my back and I have his.

But thank you attila for your really thought-provoking posts. The stuff about our parents' dysfunctional relationships as our own models is depressing and also, I'm sure, true. We're all products of our upbringings and mine was pretty fucked up in a lot of ways.

Suggesting an open marriage would go down very badly. Because while he's happy to give me free reign to do as I wish that would not include having sex with other men (even though he doesn't really want to have sex with me very often himself). TBH though I don't think I could cope with that either.

As for him being depressed - yes he is. Its been a problem for him since he was a student and it comes and goes (as with many people's depression). Its much worse when he's stressed at work (which is a lot of the time), and he found having babies very hard (I found it hard too - particularly as he pretty much left me to it with both of them). He should probably see a doctor though, rather than just taking St John's Wort and being a miserable bastard a lot of the time.

As for 'sunk costs', I'm far more worried about future costs. There would be no financial upside to breaking up - it would all be downside.

Hi

Sorry about your situation. I think returning to work would be a good idea TBH. Your kids are both in school now, so the childcare is for before and after school. I know there are school holidays as well, but if you don't work now, it will be extremely hard.

It can be difficult for men carrying all the financial responsibility and I've known them to become resentful of wives not returning to work after the children have started school. Even a part time job would be a good start.

That total mismatch in sex drives is eventually going to lead you to find comfort elsewhere.

You're basically afraid of being an independent woman..
With children.

Go for your own counselling.