Settle an argument

[ChuckItIntheBucketandMoveOn]

Have just rejoined having deregged after all the password hoo ha, shows my desperate need to be told I'm in the right

DH and I were both working today, I got home earlier. Kids (age 2 and 5) were playing in dc1 bedroom before dinner, seemed happy enough, left them to it. When they came down, asked them to tidy up which they did. DH likes house tidy, I don't really care as long as it's liveable, would rather tidy up once at 6:30 but DH likes it tidy at all times (relevant I think)

After dinner I get kids ready for bed, brush teeth, pyjamas and DH says he'll read story to dc1. He notices there are handprints on the mirror in the bedroom and gets a bit ranty, 'how many times have I told you (kids) not to touch the mirror'. Goes and gets window spray to clean it.

I ask him not to, to leave it and I'll deal in the morning as the stuff he uses has such a strong chemically smell. He cleans mirror anyway.

Dc1 doesn't seem to mind the smell so I suppose it doesn't really matter, but I can smell it from downstairs and hate the idea of him sleeping in there. DH said if I object to the clean smell, I could stop them touching the mirror in the first place.

I don't give a flying fuck if there are handprints on the mirror in a bedroom where it's not even really used as a mirror. If it had the chance to get and stay mucky, I would clean once a week but DH cleans it all the time.

DH does have OCD, is on ADs and trying to manage it.

I would rather not constantly clean but also don't want to be constantly nagging the kids, 'hands off the walls, hands off the mirrors, wipe your hands, no food/drinks in the living room, no shoes in the house, no bare feet in the garden' etc because I just don't care about these things.

So somebody please settle this for us. Were we both in the wrong/right? What do you do if your partner doesn't have the same standards of tidiness and cleanliness as you?

This has been written lighthearted by it is really bothering me!

Sounds harsh but I think I would be inclined to issue something of an ultimatum. As Bacon says, any treatment/therapy requires effort and it does sound as though your DH needs to persevere a bit more, it doesn't seem very fair that you and DC's everyday lives are so affected and yet he's still inconsistent with treatment. I don't actually think it would be unsympathetic for you to tell him that you're exhausted by his insistence that everything is cleaned there and then and by the fact that you have to constantly minimise the effects of his illness on your DC. Yes, it's an illness but is it fair that you have to do so much to make allowances for it when he isn't doing everything he could do to sustain the improvements in his condition gained by treatment? From what you've said there is an element of enabling on your part although I totally understand that you want to be sympathetic but there's also an element of laziness on his part, he needs to be making at least as much effort to control his symptoms as you have to in order to live with them.

This sounds very stressful OP.

Would it be possible to remove some of the opportunities for mess - take the mirrors out of the kids rooms e.g. if it is cupboard doors replace with plain doors.

Also what fern says.

I think I remember you had some threads a few years ago where you were frustrated by DH's behaviour?

Use white distilled vinegar/water for mirrors if you are concern about harmful chemicals around kids.

But yeah, he is hard on the kids. Kids will get their grubby hands everywhere. He will need to talk to the therapy.

Beryl I have indeed asked for advice before. This situation has improved and then worsened a number of times over the years, usually when I bring it to a head. I can manage it for ages without it being too stressful and then suddenly a hundred little things are pissing me off again. I get sound advice and experience here, as well as the comfort of knowing that I'm not a total bitch for feeling exhausted.

I've been close to breaking point before and reined it in, I'm hoping I can do it again!

A lot has changed over the past few years thanks to advice I was given on here

Fern I agree with a lot of what you said but please don't assume it's laziness as its more likely to be fear/anxiety. Do you have a fear? Most people do. The therapy for ocd generally is confronting your fears, doing what scares you.

To try and explain asking someone with ocd to eg touch a bin, is like asking an arachnophobe to hold a bunch of spiders, or someone afraid of heights to do a bungee jump. It's that scary!

I totally get that Bacon, it was just OP's reference to him getting treatment until he sees an improvement and then allowing it to tail off because he's managing better that made me mention laziness. Just sounds like he could be making a bit more of a concerted and consistent effort with his treatment, especially bearing in mind OP's constant effort to understand and allow for his illness. I really wasn't trying to belittle OCD as an illness or the strength it must take to attempt to overcome it, just that his effort should equal the OP's given that it affects the whole family to such a degree.

Fern as I said I agree he should be meeting OP at least halfway especially for the sake of the dc. But I do really appreciate your responding (hope that doesn't sound patronising).

Lots of people don't take all the meds (not just mental health stuff, people not taking all their anti-inflammatories eg because they think they're healed and then doing themselves more damage, not taking diabetes/heart/BP meds regularly cos 'I've been fine for ages'). Cos it's hard to get your head round.

I've been guilty of not keeping totally on top of things myself but then feel myself slipping and get into gear again. My dd is on long term meds for a different condition so we nag each other a bit (light heartedly). Also my dd a lot older now.

Mine a teen so i have to deal with sleepovers etc, it's stressful and anxiety inducing for me but I do it for her (unless I'm very unwell in which case I see it as no different than me having to say no if eg I had flu and I try and keep it to a minimum).

Life is a balancing act, we don't always get it right, but you have to take a step back and assess sometimes, especially with children.

Completely agree Bacon, I don't have OCD but do suffer with anxiety and it sometimes takes my DH pointing out that it's impacting on our lives before I pick up treatment again. I'm like you though, I try really hard not to let my illness affect my DD and that's where I feel OP's DH is letting the side down a bit, sounds like he needs the nudge you and your DD provide for each other and my DH provides for me.

Yes, in fact OP would your dh go on ocd chat boards or similar? Sometimes people men are better at hearing a 'buck up you're not being fair' from an outsider but also someone who 'gets it'

A friend of mine is like this - children refuse to go to her house to play - (she can't work out why - too many rules - including rules around food)

They come to me instead - you can see them relax here -

She's quite uptight - removes shoes - eats slowly not to drop things - shocked if my kids make a mess - she's 7

It's affecting them already - you just haven't seen it

I am all for a clean house but this is really unfair on your kids .

He'd not get on well with me. I'm a bare minimum required sort of housekeeper.

The bit I'm struggling with is the way he expect YOU to jump to and indulge his issue.
I mean if he feels compelled to waste spend time cleaning things to his standards that's up to him, but I don't think he should expect you to do the same or get arsey when you don't. That's making his problem your problem isn't it?

I'd get rid of the chemicals and get something that at least smells nice.

I use Splosh at home and work. Made using real things like fruit and not treated on animals and smells great. Not chemically at all.

www.splosh.com

A84889 for some discount off your starter pack. Refils come in the post.

Chemical free cleaners are a sticking plaster!

OP has bigger issues than a cleaning spray

My kids, and myself, have asthma. I would be fuming if my husband decided to clean their room with harmful chemical cleaner. Strong chemicals usually triggers it and asthma gets worst at night.

What is he going to do when they are teenagers and they want their own space and clean up their room in their own way?

So ask your husband, if the kids have asthma, and his cleaner will set it off and send them to emergency, would it still be worth it over a clean mirror?

Following on from what Fern has said about an ulimatum, I suggest you tell your h to live elsewhere until he's got his OCD under control as the current state of play is unfair to your dc and far too wearing on your nerves for him to be under the same roof as the three of you.

Alternatively, stock up with non-chemical cleaning products, buy a window vacuum for glass & mirrors, and institute rules such as he absents himself during the dcs mealtimes and from any room they're playing in unless and until he refrains from nagging them and cleaning while they're present.

Hmmmm. I'm sympathetic about the OCD, about his actual compulsion to clean.
Fill your boots, Mr ChuckIt.

What I'm not sympathetic about is him:

• refusing to change cleaner
• telling you that you should do it first
• telling the kids not to touch
• telling you to stop them

I could try to accept his need to pick up a cloth as soon as he sees a mark. I'd feel really sorry him, actually.

But I would want him to accept that he just gets up and does it silently, with no reproach to the kids or me, and kept only acceptable cleaners in the house.

Thanks for all your suggestions, lots of food for thought. It's a balancing act, being supportive while also protecting my own mental health so I do appreciate your comments and experience

My friend's wife had OCD, he was a GP with access to every form of therapy available but like your husband, she refused to take the help offered or would go for a couple of weeks, take the medication and then announce it wasn't working or she was cured before going right back to obsessive cleaning. It affected their 7 year old daughter terribly, although he did all he could to shield her. The final straw was when he came home one day and found his daughter having a panic attack because she had spilt something on the floor, she was heartbroken because she knew it meant her mother would now spend the rest of the evening, cleaning and recleaning the kitchen floor. He put his daughter first, moved out and said they weren't coming back until his wife recognised the damage she was inflicting on their child and took positive, permanent steps to tackle her issues.

Your husband is an adult, your priority should not be to him but to your children, who are already having their lives affected by his illness (only having friends round when he isn't home, chemicals sprayed in their bedrooms, messy play only when Dad and isn't around), they are being affected and the only person who can help them is you, as your husband is clearly unwilling or unable to change. Witnessing the harm a parent with OCD can do to a child is horrible, it's annoying and frustrating. You really need to step up and put your children's welfare and mental health ahead of that of your husband's. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I have seen how devastating this can be for a child and although the child concerned is now an adult she is still living with the consequences of her Mother's OCD and still get n therapy.

Yes in a sense, whether he means to or not, he's limiting the life opportunities and experiences of his children by imposing his will as he does.
Quite simply, if he must live in an environment that is cleaned to within an inch of its life then he can't be living with a family, even if it's his own. His compulsion is not synonymous with normal family life and it is not for the environment to bend to his will, but for him to accept that the undertaking of it is his burden alone.

He has my sympathy but if he cannot allow your children to live normally, that is a concern.

I'm knocked out, as usual by the great advice and support on here.

OP, this: "he says if he's cleaning it, it will be his way, if I want it done my way I should do it first." This is bullying.

I echo everything Cabrina said at 23.16.

I would imagine that somewhere deep, or maybe even close to the surface, he will feel shame, quite strongly about his behaviour and condition. When you put what Cabrinha said to him, do it with a gentle start up. If you go in showing your anxiety, fear and isolation, and sound too harsh, he will flood with emotion and get defensive. So try some soft, gentle body language and eye contact before you speak and try and be soothing to him, yourself. He needs to hear you and this would stand you in good stead.