I'm starting to think that our different parenting styles and attitudes could actually split us up.

[sandyballs]

It's been a horrible weekend . DH and I have been together nearly 20 years (married for 10) with 5 year old twin girls.

We have vastly different ideas about bringing our girls up. DH thinks I'm a miserable authoritarian, obsessed with the girls' routine, sleep, food and feels I need to chill a bit and let them be. (His exact words last night during a row ).

He, on the other hand, believes they should basically be able to do what they want. If left to him bed time would be when they fancy it, meals would be a help yourself affair when they were hungry, with endless sweets and other crap inbetween. They obviously think Dad is great fun because he basically has no rules. He is great fun, apart from when he is tired or stressed and then he'll just explode at them, no warning, no build up, just 0-10, causing tears and misery.

We had several heated rows this weekend. He said that he dreads me coming home some days as "the atmosphere changes and everyone has to behave". Total rubbish, I don't expect the girls' to just sit there in the corner reading. But I also don't expect them to be leaping all over the sofa, hanging off the curtains and generally causing havoc.

He also said last night that I'm not the happy go lucky girl that he married. I accept that is probably true. I have two children, a job and an ageing mother. I'm not in my mid-20's with no responsibilities, a small flat with a small mortgage and able to go out clubbing and sleep all weekend. I'm probably not as happy go lucky, but what can I do about it, why is that a criticism from him.

Christmas Eve, after a manic build up, working hard, buying all the presents, writing all the cards, decorating the house, he sat up in bed and decided that I was depressed. "You need more help darling", he said "You're not very happy, I think you're actually probably depressed". "I need to do a bit more to take the pressure of you".
Great, I thought. I wasn't actually "depressed", just tired and bit stressed with all that was going on but I was pleased to hear that he thought he should pull his weight more. Anyway, he continued to sit in bed, contemplating this "revelation" of his for at least an hour. He then emerged to sit on the sofa and watch TV for the rest of the morning .

I'm just so pissed off with him at the moment, but every time I try and broach the subject, I'm moaning, or I'm depressed, or I need to chill.

Sorry this is so long, hope I haven't bored the arse off anyone, feel a bit better now I've bashed this out.

hargh hargh hargh [evil laugh]

though see my bedtime thread for what can happen - dh couldn't cope with the chaos and has hightailed it to points south - leaving me to reinstate bedtime. But hey - if he comes back to beautiful supernanny oiled machine lifestyle (fat chance) he will at least see the difference.

sandyballs

I was going suggest the same thing, i did this to dh it took less then a week for him to realise that he had to help to get things done and everyone is happy.

sandyballs you have my sympathy as it sucks having to be the one to set the rules and get things done. my dh is supportive of my decisions and methods but i do wish a lot of the time he would use a little teeny bit of initiative himself! good luck with your experiment - i will be very interested to hear how it went!
re having rules and routines, i totally agree with fortyplus - children do thrive on it!dh was away for a week recently and the kids were fab - they actually behave far better and are much calmer when he's not about (gulp!)!! it is also a great idea to pack your dh off with the kids on a set activity for a set amount of time - even if all parties are reluctant, persevere as everyone will have a great time. honestly

Sandyballs rather than trying to live with the chaos yourself why don't you go away for a weekend without your girls. Find some friends to visit or organise a spa break.

If DH has any problems with that then tell him that what he said to you really sunk in and you are trying to be more happy go lucky and a spa break will really help you to be less stressed. If he still complains tell him he can have a weekend away as well, from the sounds of it you won't notice the difference.

Don't micromanage before you go. Try not to leave full instructions for each meal, planned activities for each day and clothes for all occasions. Let your DH figure it out himself. Ok your girls may eat chicken nuggets for every meal and wear their pjs with angel wings for the weekend, but it won't kill them.

When you come back he may have a new found appreciation for the importance of structure and routine.

I did go away for a weekend last year and DH didn't seem to think it was much hassle at all, or at least he didn't admit to it. But then he didn't do what I would normally have to do. He just kind of muddled through, knowing that I would eventually be home. The kids had a great time, eating maltesers for breakfast .

A friend just offered to have my girls for a couple of hours at the weekend so me and DH can go out for lunch, and I've said no! I really don't want to go out for lunch with him. He's always been the person I would like to spend time with above anyone else, but not at the moment .

get the girls looked after anyway and have some you time.

Now that's an idea .

seriously! even if you just go for a coffee g&t , might help you feel better

Your plan for this week sounds good - try it out and see how it goes. Then have a think about the other suggestions on here and where you will get by talking it all through with him...

If you love him, give it ALL a try before making any decisions or giving up.
Your comment that you've always wanted to spend time with him above anyone else struck a chord with me - that's exactly how I feel about my DH. We're having some issues at the moment and he's moved out for a while and I'd give anything to have him around and spend some quality time with him xx

Sandyballs - I agree with most of the posts on this thread and can se how infuriating this is for you. Your DP needs to understand that what a child thinks they want (to stay up late, eat sweets all the time or whatever) is not necesarily what they do want or need. Often as fortyplus says they are actually asking to have the line drawn for them. i clearly remember my dad being the "fun one" as he had no boundaries, and yet alse the unpredictable angry one and I remember asking for a huge bar of chocolate once, and him saying yes and I really felt kind of panicked and upset - I wanted him to say "no, don't be silly".

Talk to your DP about this concept - that children want and need rules, as well as treats and fun and occasional exceptions. Things like staying up late are exciting and fun because they're a rare treat. All the time would make them unhappy. Ask him why he has such a fear of rules and even reading a parenting book - you might get to the bottom of it a bit. If you can get him to read one I think the baby whisperer ones are the most insightful and reasonable and not overly strict, so would allow in his point of view too.

sandyballs - I go away for a long weekend with a group of girlfriends every year. dh usually decamps to his parents!

Been thinking about this Sandy, it would really hurt me if dh criticised my style of parenting and the person I had become, especially if I felt I was doing a good job of parenting and the routines/rules were absolutely for the benefit of my dc - which is your case, isn't it?

No real advice on that, just wanted to say it's fine to feel hurt and offended - and need some time to just digest that before tackling the whole issue.

I'm going to take a bit of an opposite view here - please don't be offended!

I should say that both dh and I are fairly strict, so we're probably more similar than you are, but I can completely understand his dreading you coming home. My dh has a very stressful job, compounded by a horrible tube journey home on the Northern Line (also known as the Misery Line!). I dread the sound of his key in the door and spend the time before he comes home making sure everything is tidy, kids have done everything that they should have done, the dishwasher is stacked properly (I kid you not) and all the other things that will start him off. It's not really about us but it's a way he lets off steam and it's horrible. He knows that he does it and that it really upsets me, but can't seem to stop himself.

Anyway, it sounds like you can be a bit like my DH - coming through the door and looking to find fault. Given your dh's style, there's always plenty - so all your dh (and children?) hear from mummy is moaning and complaining. (Sorry if that sounds harsh!)

Have you tried explaining to him really why you want to do the things you're putting in place? It sounds like you have a grand plan in your head which you think is the only way and you're not really prepared to accommodate his views at all.

There's nothing wrong with being a bit more relaxed - you don't have to run your children like whatshisname in The Sound of Music - and you can still have a routine. It does sound like you need to chill out a little bit more (perhaps not as far as Maltesers for breakfast though!)

And to be fair to your dh he did seem to realise that you were stressed before Christmas. It sounds to me like he was asking you to help him help you out - men aren't intuitive and can't seem to work out how we work, so he probably needed some explicit instructions.

I really don't think you should just abandon everything and leave it to him - you're doing something very confrontational in this way (and it's a bit childish really, not to say confusing for your kids, who are very little really).

Best course of action is to talk and listen - and to agree something that works for both of you. It's not a case of you being wrong and him being right - which is what your OP sounds like.

Becauseimworthit, I am sorry that you have to prepare the home and kids like that to avoid flare ups from your dh, that sounds awful and must be stressful for you and the kids I hope in the long term he can take a bit more responsibility for sorting out his behaviour.

sandyballs, I know exactly what you mean about wanting a partner, an equal and not having to treat your DH like another child. I do think sometimes though that to be honest, if you want that, marry a woman!

I don't actually think it's about treating him as a child but it's about being clear and explicit in what you are asking of him. And then, as someone said, making him feel clever for doing what is asked of him.

And it's also about accepting the inevitable to save your own sanity; my DH will probably always leave the holidays, days out etc to me to organise...but I can accept that because he's great in other ways. And if he did it, I would probably think he'd done it wrong!

The crux here is your opposing styles, I definitely think he needs to appreciate you more and all that you do to keep the place running and to give your girls a good routine, but it may be a case that you need to have a good chat and literally go through every area of your life and break it down - what you both think is fundamental to having happy, well developed children. There may be room for change on both sides (though more on his, I am sure!)

I tidy the hall before DH comes home. It gives a false impression of a tidy house. Then he goes up the stairs and they are tidy, into the en-suite which is also tidy and then into our bedroom which is so-so. He is quite gullible though.

Sorry off-topic. Sandyballs basically he is abdicating all responsibility to you then complaining that you are not carefree. I can see your problems although my DH is very different. Hope you can glean something from the advice on here that helps.

God, what good wives you are! I don't tidy anything before DH comes home, I just say hello when he comes in and then "now you're here you can A) play with ds while I tidy up or B) Tidy up while I play with ds!

Well I work 3 days a week so am often the last one in, so tidying the hall is max twice a week and I partially do it for my own amusement as a psychological experiment to see if it affects DH's mood. And sometimes I forget or go to a friends after school.

ok Bozza, let you off. You are not so superhuman as all that

'Tis a clever idea, actually, the tidying the hall thing....will have to see if it works on me mother when I'm next expecting her. Maybe a strategically placed air freshener and a tidy hall will give an impression that I've left my slob days behind......

I was more libertarian than my ex husband although I think our core views on getting home work done, getting them packed off to bed at a regular time so we got some peace etc were the same so not as bad as you have it.

Why not look to see what you can agree on? What about agreeing a set bed time is a good plan just for a start. Surely he could live with that one particularly as some schools even say how many hours sleep a child needs etc so it's known they perform better if they get enough sleep.

dear sandyballs, let us know which experiments you try on your dh, and which work. He sounds like a nice guy really!!! As you do too, gal I mean. They really DON'T know what's expected of them, and can't handle criticism.... and Then resort to that cheap trick of saying you're not the girl he married!

I was terrible at asking dh to do things (quicker to do it yourself as you say) but when I thanked him profusely once for emptying the dishwasher (like it's ONLY MY JOB) i found he was doing it quite regularly ..pathetic really!!!

Hi Sandyballs

I worked with a couple who were in a similar situation to you. They were starting to question their relationship due to battles over parenting style. They wrote to me recently to tell me how seeking parenting help really saved their relationship, so while I do think there are more issues here for yu than difference in parenting style (the doing everything, not being taken out - appreciated even?) it may be worth trying to look quite thoroughly at the parenting side of things.

Neither of you will be 100 percent on the mark.

Boundaries are important so it is rubbish that you have a doom and gloom effect on things when you come home. Your girls may not show it but part of them will welcome the restrictions that you bring. The flaws in your dh's approach would start to show and manifest themselves without your influence since children without boundaries struggle to feel loved and valued sometimes when there is no evidence of the parent caring enough to restrict and protect them.

Maybe neither of you need to change all that much and your opposing styles might actually create a harmony of their own so long as the benefits of each approach are recognised and respected. If you wanted to work on this basis then it has to be as a multi faceted team and your dds need to see evidence of this supportive teamwork as they are parented.

To me, other relationship issues aside, the first step is to challenge your own perceptions of parenting - good and bad. Never mind what the books or TV says, just focus on some self awareness and bring this to a discussion together where you can talk about future parenting that encompasses all of your ideals and goals and expectations.

If this doesn't result in positive change then perhaps some light research into generally accepted parenting techniques might be useful so that you can agree together on a way forward that will mean change for both of you.

I really recommend the titles available via this website. Very sound parenting advice whch isn't gimmicky or anything to do with TV or whoever the latest hot shot parenting guru is!

www.familycaring.co.uk/

Thanks for all your further messages, very interesting reading.

To update: things have improved since Monday, thankfully. We managed to have a reasonably adult conversation Monday night without raised voices (him) and tears (me ). I have accepted that I am perhaps a little too "rigid" in my approach to the house and the kids, although they need boundaries and routine, they also need flexibility and perhaps I haven't been too great at that. There's something in my nature that feels happy and secure if everything is run well and organised, no idea why as I come from a chaotic home - mum always had her head in a book, bless her. Actually, that's probably exactly why I am like this!! I've gone the opposite way.

And DH has accepted that he is too laid back and lax about everything. Blimey, his mum is a manically tidy control freak, so he's gone the opposite way, how interesting, never thought about this in much depth before! So we have agreed to meet in the middle, if we can, fingers crossed.

Last night was great, I managed to leave a few toys out and didn't even clear the table and load the diswasher straight away, which sounds very trivial but is a big thing for me. I sat and watched tv with the girls and DH did the clearing up without even being asked. So perhaps it is more about me doing everything straight away and not letting him get involved, rather than him being lazy.

He even suggested that we go out together soon, so he's definitely trying, bless him. I did have to remind him who usually babysits though!!

Thanks for all your input on this thread.

Good news Sandy, well done!

Ahhh therapists are right when they tell us that we marry our mothers

well done sandy